From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67FCDC43461 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 14:39:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C8BA61278 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 14:39:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S234824AbhEJOkZ (ORCPT ); Mon, 10 May 2021 10:40:25 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:37048 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S235503AbhEJOhY (ORCPT ); Mon, 10 May 2021 10:37:24 -0400 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:10b:1236::1]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D84CC08E8A9; Mon, 10 May 2021 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date: Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=i6vAxLOytNOYwyM1NYfARO0i+7jkuFK7y9pYt7pXuwE=; b=djb3CWn/LU378IzapvABLkn8Gd Mp82QkScestEUeQW2L+zqtEN7XvYp31eFRebvjBEITr//+6YOo6+SYheq9BxF7YMTeqbS+RN1ORYU WcTwnub1JAhAEwo1EbdH4ZtDbzKRVhVt7KKBx8eH43WzT6ZsZkO7OQPiITlB671P2UStmst5kwHpO oLDGkct+Pf7s4vCchonkHPjgJ2dHAgGdY9eEvhnNfgt0nMzg4EJ/N8O7mpCEUjiq1yDlLopkoOUQy tCb7mahOMAZ84vugzBeIjfIYkNlViOtJdTlUAmJVQy5eePLrQct4R8yXLPW7Hy+DjovMg5jAZGdoa yuW/o03A==; Received: from willy by casper.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.94 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1lg6RA-006DIB-7H; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:59:19 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:59:08 +0100 From: Matthew Wilcox To: Edward Cree Cc: Mauro Carvalho Chehab , David Woodhouse , Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII Message-ID: References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 02:16:16PM +0100, Edward Cree wrote: > On 10/05/2021 12:55, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > The main point on this series is to replace just the occurrences > > where ASCII represents the symbol equally well > > > - U+2014 ('—'): EM DASH > Em dash is not the same thing as hyphen-minus, and the latter does not > serve 'equally well'. People use em dashes because — even in > monospace fonts — they make text easier to read and comprehend, when > used correctly. > I accept that some of the other distinctions — like en dashes — are > needlessly pedantic (though I don't doubt there is someone out there > who will gladly defend them with the same fervour with which I argue > for the em dash) and I wouldn't take the trouble to use them myself; > but I think there is a reasonable assumption that when someone goes > to the effort of using a Unicode punctuation mark that is semantic > (rather than merely typographical), they probably had a reason for > doing so. I think you're overestimating the amount of care and typographical knowledge that your average kernel developer has. Most of these UTF-8 characters come from latex conversions and really aren't necessary (and are being used incorrectly). You seem quite knowedgeable about the various differences. Perhaps you'd be willing to write a document for Documentation/doc-guide/ that provides guidance for when to use which kinds of horizontal line? https://www.punctuationmatters.com/hyphen-dash-n-dash-and-m-dash/ talks about it in the context of publications, but I think we need something more suited to our needs for kernel documentation. 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Received: from willy by casper.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.94 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1lg6RA-006DIB-7H; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:59:19 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:59:08 +0100 From: Matthew Wilcox To: Edward Cree Message-ID: References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Headers-End: 1lg6U9-0020xY-M8 Subject: Re: [f2fs-dev] [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII X-BeenThere: linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, Jonathan Corbet , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , x86@kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, David Woodhouse Content-Type: text/plain; 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charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:50:04 +0200 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, Jonathan Corbet , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , x86@kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, David Woodhouse X-BeenThere: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: alsa-devel-bounces@alsa-project.org Sender: "Alsa-devel" On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 02:16:16PM +0100, Edward Cree wrote: > On 10/05/2021 12:55, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > The main point on this series is to replace just the occurrences > > where ASCII represents the symbol equally well > > > - U+2014 ('—'): EM DASH > Em dash is not the same thing as hyphen-minus, and the latter does not > serve 'equally well'. People use em dashes because — even in > monospace fonts — they make text easier to read and comprehend, when > used correctly. > I accept that some of the other distinctions — like en dashes — are > needlessly pedantic (though I don't doubt there is someone out there > who will gladly defend them with the same fervour with which I argue > for the em dash) and I wouldn't take the trouble to use them myself; > but I think there is a reasonable assumption that when someone goes > to the effort of using a Unicode punctuation mark that is semantic > (rather than merely typographical), they probably had a reason for > doing so. I think you're overestimating the amount of care and typographical knowledge that your average kernel developer has. Most of these UTF-8 characters come from latex conversions and really aren't necessary (and are being used incorrectly). You seem quite knowedgeable about the various differences. Perhaps you'd be willing to write a document for Documentation/doc-guide/ that provides guidance for when to use which kinds of horizontal line? https://www.punctuationmatters.com/hyphen-dash-n-dash-and-m-dash/ talks about it in the context of publications, but I think we need something more suited to our needs for kernel documentation. 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Mon, 10 May 2021 13:59:45 +0000 Received: from casper.infradead.org ([2001:8b0:10b:1236::1]) by desiato.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.94 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1lg6Rg-00EYMU-6c; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:59:40 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date: Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=i6vAxLOytNOYwyM1NYfARO0i+7jkuFK7y9pYt7pXuwE=; b=djb3CWn/LU378IzapvABLkn8Gd Mp82QkScestEUeQW2L+zqtEN7XvYp31eFRebvjBEITr//+6YOo6+SYheq9BxF7YMTeqbS+RN1ORYU WcTwnub1JAhAEwo1EbdH4ZtDbzKRVhVt7KKBx8eH43WzT6ZsZkO7OQPiITlB671P2UStmst5kwHpO oLDGkct+Pf7s4vCchonkHPjgJ2dHAgGdY9eEvhnNfgt0nMzg4EJ/N8O7mpCEUjiq1yDlLopkoOUQy tCb7mahOMAZ84vugzBeIjfIYkNlViOtJdTlUAmJVQy5eePLrQct4R8yXLPW7Hy+DjovMg5jAZGdoa yuW/o03A==; Received: from willy by casper.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.94 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1lg6RA-006DIB-7H; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:59:19 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:59:08 +0100 From: Matthew Wilcox To: Edward Cree Cc: Mauro Carvalho Chehab , David Woodhouse , Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII Message-ID: References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Intel-gfx" T24gTW9uLCBNYXkgMTAsIDIwMjEgYXQgMDI6MTY6MTZQTSArMDEwMCwgRWR3YXJkIENyZWUgd3Jv dGU6Cj4gT24gMTAvMDUvMjAyMSAxMjo1NSwgTWF1cm8gQ2FydmFsaG8gQ2hlaGFiIHdyb3RlOgo+ ID4gVGhlIG1haW4gcG9pbnQgb24gdGhpcyBzZXJpZXMgaXMgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSBqdXN0IHRoZSBv Y2N1cnJlbmNlcwo+ID4gd2hlcmUgQVNDSUkgcmVwcmVzZW50cyB0aGUgc3ltYm9sIGVxdWFsbHkg d2VsbAo+IAo+ID4gCS0gVSsyMDE0ICgn4oCUJyk6IEVNIERBU0gKPiBFbSBkYXNoIGlzIG5vdCB0 aGUgc2FtZSB0aGluZyBhcyBoeXBoZW4tbWludXMsIGFuZCB0aGUgbGF0dGVyIGRvZXMgbm90Cj4g IHNlcnZlICdlcXVhbGx5IHdlbGwnLiAgUGVvcGxlIHVzZSBlbSBkYXNoZXMgYmVjYXVzZSDigJQg ZXZlbiBpbgo+ICBtb25vc3BhY2UgZm9udHMg4oCUIHRoZXkgbWFrZSB0ZXh0IGVhc2llciB0byBy ZWFkIGFuZCBjb21wcmVoZW5kLCB3aGVuCj4gIHVzZWQgY29ycmVjdGx5Lgo+IEkgYWNjZXB0IHRo YXQgc29tZSBvZiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgZGlzdGluY3Rpb25zIOKAlCBsaWtlIGVuIGRhc2hlcyDigJQg YXJlCj4gIG5lZWRsZXNzbHkgcGVkYW50aWMgKHRob3VnaCBJIGRvbid0IGRvdWJ0IHRoZXJlIGlz IHNvbWVvbmUgb3V0IHRoZXJlCj4gIHdobyB3aWxsIGdsYWRseSBkZWZlbmQgdGhlbSB3aXRoIHRo ZSBzYW1lIGZlcnZvdXIgd2l0aCB3aGljaCBJIGFyZ3VlCj4gIGZvciB0aGUgZW0gZGFzaCkgYW5k IEkgd291bGRuJ3QgdGFrZSB0aGUgdHJvdWJsZSB0byB1c2UgdGhlbSBteXNlbGY7Cj4gIGJ1dCBJ IHRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgcmVhc29uYWJsZSBhc3N1bXB0aW9uIHRoYXQgd2hlbiBzb21lb25l IGdvZXMKPiAgdG8gdGhlIGVmZm9ydCBvZiB1c2luZyBhIFVuaWNvZGUgcHVuY3R1YXRpb24gbWFy ayB0aGF0IGlzIHNlbWFudGljCj4gIChyYXRoZXIgdGhhbiBtZXJlbHkgdHlwb2dyYXBoaWNhbCks IHRoZXkgcHJvYmFibHkgaGFkIGEgcmVhc29uIGZvcgo+ICBkb2luZyBzby4KCkkgdGhpbmsgeW91 J3JlIG92ZXJlc3RpbWF0aW5nIHRoZSBhbW91bnQgb2YgY2FyZSBhbmQgdHlwb2dyYXBoaWNhbApr bm93bGVkZ2UgdGhhdCB5b3VyIGF2ZXJhZ2Uga2VybmVsIGRldmVsb3BlciBoYXMuICBNb3N0IG9m IHRoZXNlClVURi04IGNoYXJhY3RlcnMgY29tZSBmcm9tIGxhdGV4IGNvbnZlcnNpb25zIGFuZCBy ZWFsbHkgYXJlbid0Cm5lY2Vzc2FyeSAoYW5kIGFyZSBiZWluZyB1c2VkIGluY29ycmVjdGx5KS4K CllvdSBzZWVtIHF1aXRlIGtub3dlZGdlYWJsZSBhYm91dCB0aGUgdmFyaW91cyBkaWZmZXJlbmNl cy4gIFBlcmhhcHMKeW91J2QgYmUgd2lsbGluZyB0byB3cml0ZSBhIGRvY3VtZW50IGZvciBEb2N1 bWVudGF0aW9uL2RvYy1ndWlkZS8KdGhhdCBwcm92aWRlcyBndWlkYW5jZSBmb3Igd2hlbiB0byB1 c2Ugd2hpY2gga2luZHMgb2YgaG9yaXpvbnRhbApsaW5lPyAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucHVuY3R1YXRp b25tYXR0ZXJzLmNvbS9oeXBoZW4tZGFzaC1uLWRhc2gtYW5kLW0tZGFzaC8KdGFsa3MgYWJvdXQg aXQgaW4gdGhlIGNvbnRleHQgb2YgcHVibGljYXRpb25zLCBidXQgSSB0aGluayB3ZSBuZWVkCnNv bWV0aGluZyBtb3JlIHN1aXRlZCB0byBvdXIgbmVlZHMgZm9yIGtlcm5lbCBkb2N1bWVudGF0aW9u LgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpJbnRlbC1n ZnggbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0CkludGVsLWdmeEBsaXN0cy5mcmVlZGVza3RvcC5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9s aXN0cy5mcmVlZGVza3RvcC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbnRlbC1nZngK From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Matthew Wilcox Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:59:08 +0100 Subject: [Intel-wired-lan] [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII In-Reply-To: References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: intel-wired-lan@osuosl.org List-ID: On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 02:16:16PM +0100, Edward Cree wrote: > On 10/05/2021 12:55, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > The main point on this series is to replace just the occurrences > > where ASCII represents the symbol equally well > > > - U+2014 ('?'): EM DASH > Em dash is not the same thing as hyphen-minus, and the latter does not > serve 'equally well'. People use em dashes because ? even in > monospace fonts ? they make text easier to read and comprehend, when > used correctly. > I accept that some of the other distinctions ? like en dashes ? are > needlessly pedantic (though I don't doubt there is someone out there > who will gladly defend them with the same fervour with which I argue > for the em dash) and I wouldn't take the trouble to use them myself; > but I think there is a reasonable assumption that when someone goes > to the effort of using a Unicode punctuation mark that is semantic > (rather than merely typographical), they probably had a reason for > doing so. I think you're overestimating the amount of care and typographical knowledge that your average kernel developer has. Most of these UTF-8 characters come from latex conversions and really aren't necessary (and are being used incorrectly). You seem quite knowedgeable about the various differences. Perhaps you'd be willing to write a document for Documentation/doc-guide/ that provides guidance for when to use which kinds of horizontal line? https://www.punctuationmatters.com/hyphen-dash-n-dash-and-m-dash/ talks about it in the context of publications, but I think we need something more suited to our needs for kernel documentation.