From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from perceval.ideasonboard.com (perceval.ideasonboard.com [213.167.242.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D500B3D6A; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 21:11:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pendragon.ideasonboard.com (62-78-145-57.bb.dnainternet.fi [62.78.145.57]) by perceval.ideasonboard.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B2DEF505; Sun, 2 Oct 2022 23:11:08 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ideasonboard.com; s=mail; t=1664745068; bh=qv2su+QSycPx0jnsfJ8GfepNj8T6Grl7/TcXglSgRyY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=YZJTi08sPv41VZH7lpr0NmEGl1FZv0yA9h8Ac0Qny9ET1vuYExkhlrCK8nnh/8TYs 4+YSvxqEw7FQHcfJRdsrn35VtwxymflYdzXMNfnZouTtPJ48C887iE5512MIJfsjSs iT0qm3jqOza6SmouwOMAfX03L1mnLuk3nH4tbLyk= Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 00:11:07 +0300 From: Laurent Pinchart To: "Artem S. Tashkinov" Cc: Slade Watkins , Theodore Ts'o , Thorsten Leemhuis , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Konstantin Ryabitsev , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Mario Limonciello Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" Message-ID: References: <83f6dd2b-784a-e6d3-ebaf-6ad9cfe4eefe@gmx.com> <79bb605a-dab8-972d-aa4a-a5e5ee49387c@gmx.com> <11098E44-8BB4-4318-9BE1-A659573E6BA4@sladewatkins.net> <20ddd12f-7277-f343-885d-b39d9ab5c2c3@gmx.com> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20ddd12f-7277-f343-885d-b39d9ab5c2c3@gmx.com> On Sun, Oct 02, 2022 at 07:37:38PM +0000, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote: > On 10/2/22 14:48, Slade Watkins wrote: > >> On Oct 2, 2022, at 8:49 AM, Artem S. Tashkinov wrote: > >> As I've said many times already: bugzilla must be an opt-out, not opt-in > >> experience/option. > >> > >> Let's subscribe the past six months of developers using git commits and > >> if someone doesn't like getting emails they go to the website and > >> unsubscribe _once_ which takes a minute. This is a non-issue I've no > >> clue why we're dwelling on it. > > > > I disagree with this in its *entirety* and I really don’t think it > > has any chance of moving forward. > > > > If this were to happen (and it won’t!) then developers will just > > send the emails to spam or some other filter because they didn’t > > _consent_ to being subscribed to it. And in my opinion, they’d be > > justified in doing that. > > It was a proposal from no one, i.e. me. > > The other option will be what? To _mass email_ everyone asking them to > subscribe to bugzilla? Do you know what will happen? 2/3 of relevant > people will forget about/neglect this email, they will never sign up > even if they are willing to and we'll end up with a disfunction bugzilla > again. > > It feels to me we are back to: > > "Users are expected to break their necks finding random mailing lists > and sending their reports to them expecting feedback". > > 95% of users will just give up. > > 4.95% of users will not receive any feedback: the developer has been > busy with their work, life, past time, etc - "Sorry, missed your email". > > Maybe 0.05% bug reports will be actually dealt with. > > Again this does not work for serious collaborations requiring multiple > people over extended periods of time. It absolutely sucks in terms of > filling in the missing details. > > I begin to sound like a broken record repeating what we've already > discussed to death a dozen times. > > Let's deprecate bugzilla and just say "f it". That's what I hear. Great! > > No responsibility, no bug reports, no fixes, welcome regressions. > > I concur. This discussion has been a complete waste of time. Do you realize how insulting this is, for all the developers and maintainers who spend lots of their free time doing their best ? It's all very nice to complain and rant, but if you want things to move forward, lead the effort and work on it. -- Regards, Laurent Pinchart