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From: Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
To: Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>
Cc: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	jeyu@kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org, arnd@arndb.de,
	rostedt@goodmis.org, mingo@redhat.com, aquini@redhat.com,
	cai@lca.pw, dyoung@redhat.com, bhe@redhat.com,
	peterz@infradead.org, tglx@linutronix.de, gpiccoli@canonical.com,
	pmladek@suse.com, tiwai@suse.de, schlad@suse.de,
	andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com, keescook@chromium.org,
	daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch, will@kernel.org,
	mchehab+samsung@kernel.org, kvalo@codeaurora.org,
	davem@davemloft.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org,
	ath10k@lists.infradead.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: use new module_firmware_crashed()
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 10:15:45 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <abf22ef3-93cb-61a4-0af2-43feac6d7930@candelatech.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200518170934.GJ11244@42.do-not-panic.com>



On 05/18/2020 10:09 AM, Luis Chamberlain wrote:
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 09:58:53AM -0700, Ben Greear wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 05/18/2020 09:51 AM, Luis Chamberlain wrote:
>>> On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 03:24:01PM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 21:28 +0000, Luis Chamberlain wrote:> module_firmware_crashed
>>>>
>>>> You didn't CC me or the wireless list on the rest of the patches, so I'm
>>>> replying to a random one, but ...
>>>>
>>>> What is the point here?
>>>>
>>>> This should in no way affect the integrity of the system/kernel, for
>>>> most devices anyway.
>>>
>>> Keyword you used here is "most device". And in the worst case, *who*
>>> knows what other odd things may happen afterwards.
>>>
>>>> So what if ath10k's firmware crashes? If there's a driver bug it will
>>>> not handle it right (and probably crash, WARN_ON, or something else),
>>>> but if the driver is working right then that will not affect the kernel
>>>> at all.
>>>
>>> Sometimes the device can go into a state which requires driver removal
>>> and addition to get things back up.
>>
>> It would be lovely to be able to detect this case in the driver/system
>> somehow!  I haven't seen any such cases recently,
>
> I assure you that I have run into it. Once it does again I'll report
> the crash, but the problem with some of this is that unless you scrape
> the log you won't know. Eventually, a uevent would indeed tell inform
> me.
>
>> but in case there is
>> some common case you see, maybe we can think of a way to detect it?
>
> ath10k is just one case, this patch series addresses a simple way to
> annotate this tree-wide.
>
>>>> So maybe I can understand that maybe you want an easy way to discover -
>>>> per device - that the firmware crashed, but that still doesn't warrant a
>>>> complete kernel taint.
>>>
>>> That is one reason, another is that a taint helps support cases *fast*
>>> easily detect if the issue was a firmware crash, instead of scraping
>>> logs for driver specific ways to say the firmware has crashed.
>>
>> You can listen for udev events (I think that is the right term),
>> and find crashes that way.  You get the actual crash info as well.
>
> My follow up to this was to add uevent to add_taint() as well, this way
> these could generically be processed by userspace.

I'm not opposed to the taint, though I have not thought much on it.

But, if you can already get the crash info from uevent, and it automatically
comes without polling or scraping logs, then what benefit beyond that does
the taint give you?

Thanks,
Ben

-- 
Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
Candela Technologies Inc  http://www.candelatech.com

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
To: Luis Chamberlain <mcgrof@kernel.org>
Cc: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, aquini@redhat.com,
	peterz@infradead.org, daniel.vetter@ffwll.ch,
	mchehab+samsung@kernel.org, will@kernel.org, bhe@redhat.com,
	ath10k@lists.infradead.org, tiwai@suse.de, mingo@redhat.com,
	dyoung@redhat.com, pmladek@suse.com, keescook@chromium.org,
	arnd@arndb.de, gpiccoli@canonical.com, rostedt@goodmis.org,
	cai@lca.pw, tglx@linutronix.de,
	andriy.shevchenko@linux.intel.com, akpm@linux-foundation.org,
	kvalo@codeaurora.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, schlad@suse.de,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, jeyu@kernel.org,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	davem@davemloft.net
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: use new module_firmware_crashed()
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 10:15:45 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <abf22ef3-93cb-61a4-0af2-43feac6d7930@candelatech.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200518170934.GJ11244@42.do-not-panic.com>



On 05/18/2020 10:09 AM, Luis Chamberlain wrote:
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 09:58:53AM -0700, Ben Greear wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 05/18/2020 09:51 AM, Luis Chamberlain wrote:
>>> On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 03:24:01PM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 2020-05-15 at 21:28 +0000, Luis Chamberlain wrote:> module_firmware_crashed
>>>>
>>>> You didn't CC me or the wireless list on the rest of the patches, so I'm
>>>> replying to a random one, but ...
>>>>
>>>> What is the point here?
>>>>
>>>> This should in no way affect the integrity of the system/kernel, for
>>>> most devices anyway.
>>>
>>> Keyword you used here is "most device". And in the worst case, *who*
>>> knows what other odd things may happen afterwards.
>>>
>>>> So what if ath10k's firmware crashes? If there's a driver bug it will
>>>> not handle it right (and probably crash, WARN_ON, or something else),
>>>> but if the driver is working right then that will not affect the kernel
>>>> at all.
>>>
>>> Sometimes the device can go into a state which requires driver removal
>>> and addition to get things back up.
>>
>> It would be lovely to be able to detect this case in the driver/system
>> somehow!  I haven't seen any such cases recently,
>
> I assure you that I have run into it. Once it does again I'll report
> the crash, but the problem with some of this is that unless you scrape
> the log you won't know. Eventually, a uevent would indeed tell inform
> me.
>
>> but in case there is
>> some common case you see, maybe we can think of a way to detect it?
>
> ath10k is just one case, this patch series addresses a simple way to
> annotate this tree-wide.
>
>>>> So maybe I can understand that maybe you want an easy way to discover -
>>>> per device - that the firmware crashed, but that still doesn't warrant a
>>>> complete kernel taint.
>>>
>>> That is one reason, another is that a taint helps support cases *fast*
>>> easily detect if the issue was a firmware crash, instead of scraping
>>> logs for driver specific ways to say the firmware has crashed.
>>
>> You can listen for udev events (I think that is the right term),
>> and find crashes that way.  You get the actual crash info as well.
>
> My follow up to this was to add uevent to add_taint() as well, this way
> these could generically be processed by userspace.

I'm not opposed to the taint, though I have not thought much on it.

But, if you can already get the crash info from uevent, and it automatically
comes without polling or scraping logs, then what benefit beyond that does
the taint give you?

Thanks,
Ben

-- 
Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
Candela Technologies Inc  http://www.candelatech.com

_______________________________________________
ath10k mailing list
ath10k@lists.infradead.org
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ath10k

  reply	other threads:[~2020-05-18 17:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 128+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-15 21:28 [PATCH v2 00/15] net: taint when the device driver firmware crashes Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 01/15] taint: add module firmware crash taint support Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:03   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-19 16:42   ` Jessica Yu
2020-05-22  5:17     ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 02/15] ethernet/839: use new module_firmware_crashed() Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:04   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 03/15] bnx2x: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:05   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 04/15] bnxt: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:06   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-16  5:14   ` Vasundhara Volam
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 05/15] bna: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:07   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 06/15] liquidio: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:07   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 07/15] cxgb4: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:09   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 08/15] ehea: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:09   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 09/15] qed: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:10   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 10/15] soc: qcom: ipa: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:10   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-19 22:34   ` Alex Elder
2020-05-22  5:28     ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 20:52       ` Alex Elder
2020-05-22 21:53         ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 11/15] wimax/i2400m: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:11   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 12/15] ath10k: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:11   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-16  4:11     ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-16 13:24   ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-16 13:24     ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-16 13:50     ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-16 13:50       ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 16:56       ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 16:56         ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19  1:23       ` Brian Norris
2020-05-19  1:23         ` Brian Norris
2020-05-19 14:02         ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19 14:02           ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-20  0:47           ` Brian Norris
2020-05-20  0:47             ` Brian Norris
2020-05-20  5:37             ` Emmanuel Grumbach
2020-05-20  5:37               ` Emmanuel Grumbach
2020-05-20  8:32               ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-05-20  8:32                 ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-05-21 19:01               ` Brian Norris
2020-05-21 19:01                 ` Brian Norris
2020-05-22  5:12                 ` Emmanuel Grumbach
2020-05-22  5:12                   ` Emmanuel Grumbach
2020-05-22  5:23                   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22  5:23                     ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 16:51     ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 16:51       ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 16:58       ` Ben Greear
2020-05-18 16:58         ` Ben Greear
2020-05-18 17:09         ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 17:09           ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 17:15           ` Ben Greear [this message]
2020-05-18 17:15             ` Ben Greear
2020-05-18 17:18             ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 17:18               ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 18:06               ` Steve deRosier
2020-05-18 18:06                 ` Steve deRosier
2020-05-18 19:09                 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 19:09                   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 19:25                   ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 19:25                     ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 19:59                     ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 19:59                       ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 20:07                       ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 20:07                         ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 21:18                         ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 21:18                           ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 20:28                     ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 20:28                       ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 20:29                       ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 20:29                         ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 20:35                         ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 20:35                           ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 20:41                           ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 20:41                             ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-18 20:46                             ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 20:46                               ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 21:22                               ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 21:22                                 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-18 22:16                                 ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-18 22:16                                   ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-19  1:05                                   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19  1:05                                     ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19 21:15                                     ` [RFC 1/2] devlink: add simple fw crash helpers Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-19 21:15                                       ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-22  5:20                                       ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22  5:20                                         ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 17:17                                         ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-22 17:17                                           ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-22 20:46                                           ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-22 20:46                                             ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-22 21:51                                             ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 21:51                                               ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 23:23                                               ` Steve deRosier
2020-05-22 23:23                                                 ` Steve deRosier
2020-05-22 23:44                                                 ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 23:44                                                   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-25  9:07                                                 ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-05-25  9:07                                                   ` Andy Shevchenko
2020-05-25 17:08                                                   ` Ben Greear
2020-05-25 17:08                                                     ` Ben Greear
2020-05-25 20:57                                             ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-25 20:57                                               ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-07-30 13:56                                               ` Johannes Berg
2020-07-30 13:56                                                 ` Johannes Berg
2020-05-22 21:49                                           ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-22 21:49                                             ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-19 21:15                                     ` [RFC 2/2] i2400m: use devlink health reporter Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-19 21:15                                       ` Jakub Kicinski
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 13/15] ath6kl: use new module_firmware_crashed() Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-15 21:28   ` Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:12   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-16  4:12     ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 14/15] brcm80211: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:13   ` Rafael Aquini
2020-05-15 21:28 ` [PATCH v2 15/15] mwl8k: " Luis Chamberlain
2020-05-16  4:13   ` Rafael Aquini

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