From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB430C43331 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:35:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F9CA2072E for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:35:24 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 9F9CA2072E Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=eik.bme.hu Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:37306 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJG71-0003WO-Q2 for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:35:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36261) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJG5Y-0002yD-BZ for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:33:53 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJG5W-0000ii-GD for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:33:51 -0400 Received: from zero.eik.bme.hu ([2001:738:2001:2001::2001]:55735) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJG5W-0000eZ-8c for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:33:50 -0400 Received: from zero.eik.bme.hu (blah.eik.bme.hu [152.66.115.182]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 8978B747EA7; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 14:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: by zero.eik.bme.hu (Postfix, from userid 432) id 6201D747EA2; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 14:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zero.eik.bme.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6094E747EA3; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 14:33:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 14:33:46 +0200 (CEST) From: BALATON Zoltan To: Markus Armbruster Subject: Re: deprecation of in-tree builds In-Reply-To: <875zel5722.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> Message-ID: References: <87v9mmug73.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <875zel5722.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (BSF 395 2020-01-19) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2001:738:2001:2001::2001 X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Peter Maydell , QEMU Developers , Paolo Bonzini Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Markus Armbruster wrote: > Peter Maydell writes: >> On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote: >>> >>> Peter Maydell writes: >>> >>>> AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually >>>> stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is >>>> building in a separate build directory. I thought we should >>>> probably mention that in the 5.0 changelog, so I wrote up some >>>> text: >>>> >>>> https://wiki.qemu.org/ChangeLog/5.0#Build_Information >>> >>> Overdue. Thanks for doing this! >>> >>>> Suggestions for changes/comments etc welcome. >>> >>> Looks fine to me. >> >> Consensus in the thread seemed to lean towards having >> the 'configure/make' runes auto-create a build directory; >> if we want to do that we should probably not say anything in >> the release notes, because we'll cause people to change >> unnecessarily. Or at least have them say "We recommend >> out-of-tree builds. In future we might make the commands >> that currently do an in-tree build automatically create >> and use a build directory for you." rather than a blanket >> "we're going to drop this and you should change what you >> do now". >> >> Thoughts? > > I'm wary of complicating the build system to save developers a minor > change of habits. How much complication is it? Looks like a few lines in configure (like the one submitted to print warning but instead of printing a long warning just run the commands (which is even shorter then the text). Then a Makefile in top level dir to do make -C build like someone has also posted in another email. This does not seem too much burden to make life of some people easier so I don't see why some of you insist to force everyone to change their ways even if it could be solved with some effort. > We will have to ask developers to change habits anyway when we switch to > Meson. I agree with Daniel's recommendation to delay changes requiring > habit-changes until then. However, telling people to stay clear of the > unloved and brittle in-tree build is simply good advice we should not > withhold. Can someone please explain why is it brittle and cannot be supported? It has worked well so far apart from some breakage due to being untested which is also not a techincal necessity just a decision by some maintiners to not test it. Adding a CI job to keep it working would also not be difficult or much complexity. Regards, BALATON Zoltan