From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1753376Ab3GQJjQ (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 05:39:16 -0400 Received: from smtp.citrix.com ([66.165.176.89]:39432 "EHLO SMTP.CITRIX.COM" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751773Ab3GQJjO (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 05:39:14 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,683,1367971200"; d="scan'208";a="37459821" Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:55 +0100 From: Stefano Stabellini X-X-Sender: sstabellini@kaball.uk.xensource.com To: Jiri Kosina CC: Stefano Stabellini , Sarah Sharp , Steven Rostedt , "H. Peter Anvin" , Chris Ball , Darren Hart , Linus Torvalds , Ingo Molnar , Guenter Roeck , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Dave Jones , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Andrew Morton , stable , , Willy Tarreau Subject: Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20130715174659.GC15531@xanatos> <20130715180403.GD15531@xanatos> <20130715184642.GE15531@xanatos> <20130715195316.GF15531@xanatos> <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <1373926109.17876.221.camel@gandalf.local.home> <20130715223615.GI15531@xanatos> <1373932170.28142.24.camel@envy.home> <864nbv9qcm.fsf@void.printf.net> <1373944014.17876.255.camel@gandalf.local.home> <51E4BFA9.1030600@zytor.com> <1373991399.6458.6.camel@gandalf.local.home> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Jiri Kosina wrote: > On Tue, 16 Jul 2013, Stefano Stabellini wrote: > > > > > I think that it's hurting Linux and in particular it's hurting > > > > attracting new talents. > > > > > > Then why do we have the largest # of developers than any other Open > > > Source project? > > > > Because Linux is the most widely used kernel, it's everywhere from > > embedded devices to supercomputers. > > And that's because ... ? > > Yes, because the community has been very open since its very beginning > (and this is not "being open about why I hate you personally", but this is > "being open about what I think about your code"). Being open about what I think about your code doesn't mean that I can feel free to verbally attack you. > Plus there is a *LOT* of humor and sarcasm in all that. Which just > contributes to working on linux kernel being fun. I'd absolutely like to > keep that spirit. > > If you guys now start telling others what is allowed and what is forbidden > to say, you are going to destroy this completely. > > I don't want to be a part of a community where you have to read a legal > code before you can speak without fear of being accused of verbal > violence. > > This just doesn't fit into how people of my culture see the world; hence, > I may even feel offended by Sarah's proposal (i.e. being very restrictive > about what I am allowed to say), actually. I like openness, I like > sarcasm, I like fun. Anyone who is trying to forbid this just doesn't fit > into my culture. We should be able to prevent verbal abuses without involving legal, right? Would a NETIQUETTE file be enough, or would you consider that "legal code"? > > > Honestly, I think LKML over the years has become more tame. Yeah, back > > > in 2005 it was rather harsh, but I don't really see that anymore. I > > > don't see the nasty flame wars going on. Everything seems to be focused > > > more on the technical side, and there's really very little personal > > > attacks out there. Sure, with 15,000 emails a month, you get a few. And > > > Linus will get fed up and burst. But they are really few and far > > > between. And sometimes, a Linus burst gets things moving along much > > > faster than being "professional". You think ARM would have gotten their > > > act together as quick as they did if Linus didn't curse them out and > > > threaten to stop pulling their crap? > > > > I think there is a way to get the point across without cursing. > > Maybe there is, maybe there is not. > > I am not cursing in my e-mails, you are probably neither. Linus is. Others > are. > > So what? He/they believe they achieves their goal through that mode of > operation (and very often they indeed do), as so do we, through different > means of communication. > > No need to change anything anywhere. Please let everyone express their > feelings the way the believe it's best for achieving their goals, and do > the same. There is a very fine line between cursing and what people might perceive as a personal attack.