From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from phobos.denx.de (phobos.denx.de [85.214.62.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67BC2ECAAD4 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 09:04:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from h2850616.stratoserver.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by phobos.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CECE18495B; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:04:55 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=orcam.me.uk Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Received: by phobos.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 109) id 6D6B984978; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:04:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from angie.orcam.me.uk (angie.orcam.me.uk [IPv6:2001:4190:8020::34]) by phobos.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F9E8495B for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:04:52 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=orcam.me.uk Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=macro@orcam.me.uk Received: by angie.orcam.me.uk (Postfix, from userid 500) id EFD6492009C; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:04:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by angie.orcam.me.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E955D92009B; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:04:51 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:04:51 +0100 (BST) From: "Maciej W. Rozycki" To: =?UTF-8?Q?Pali_Roh=C3=A1r?= cc: Stefan Roese , Bin Meng , Simon Glass , u-boot@lists.denx.de Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] pci: Do not enable PCIe GEN3 link retrain workaround by default In-Reply-To: <20220827123005.10239-1-pali@kernel.org> Message-ID: References: <20220406150911.23927-1-pali@kernel.org> <20220827123005.10239-1-pali@kernel.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (DEB 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-BeenThere: u-boot@lists.denx.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: U-Boot discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Sender: "U-Boot" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.6 at phobos.denx.de X-Virus-Status: Clean On Sat, 27 Aug 2022, Pali Rohár wrote: > Moreover this workaround is enabled for all existing hardware and also all > future PCIe hardware, which opens a hole that other PCIe vendors may > introduce same HW issue as on systems where this workaround is required and > nobody would notice it because U-Boot automatically apply workaround for it. Why is it a problem? Is the intent to cause hassle to end users and force them to take action when they have a non-working piece of hardware? I'd say in 99% of cases this will only cause frustration and they won't bother. They will just conclude that either piece of hardware involved is broken and will throw it away. Just as I almost did. The seller has offered me a refund, which seems thought to be a universal solution nowadays (but I need to do what I meant to and getting money back doesn't solve it). And at least I know what U-boot (or indeed firmware) is and have a general understanding of how computers work. Most people just want to plug stuff in and use it for whatever their need is. Expecting them to take action to get things working is wasting their time (which BTW seems to have been a growing trend in last ~30 years: putting burden on the end user to get our problems solved, which saves our time and money at the expense of end user's). NB I'm slowly getting fed up with the amount of non-working stuff piling up around. Every other piece of equipment I try doesn't work for one reason or another and I need to either chase bugs myself or to spend days and weeks to persuade someone at least to believe a problem is there to get that sorted. All in my free time I'd rather spend on something else. I'd welcome things working automagically for a change so that I could focus on what I mean to be doing, and therefore I take breaking things deliberately as a major offence. FWIW, Maciej