From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.43) id 1Mmw8P-0005yd-KN for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:57:21 -0400 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mmw8N-0005yK-Mm for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:57:19 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mmw8I-0005xZ-4C for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:57:18 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52913 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Mmw8I-0005xW-0J for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:57:14 -0400 Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.43.132]:37767) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Mmw8H-00014i-H4 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:57:13 -0400 Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n8DKvB0S016387 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:57:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) id <0KPX00M00GT4HU00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kasha ([unknown] [10.1.48.74]) by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.04 64bit (built Jul 2 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KPX00IMYGVA66A0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> for grub-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:54:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth Goldberg In-reply-to: <20090912125452.GB11249@thorin> Sender: Seth.Goldberg@Sun.COM X-X-Sender: sethg@"bergsoft.West.Sun.COM." To: The development of GRUB 2 Message-id: References: <4AA7B690.20909@gmail.com> <1252505468.2998.16.camel@fz.local> <1252587711.2908.38.camel@fz.local> <20090911131709.GC7959@thorin> <20090912125452.GB11249@thorin> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (GSO 1167 2008-08-23) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) Subject: Re: About firmware facilities X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GRUB 2 List-Id: The development of GRUB 2 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:57:20 -0000 Quoting Robert Millan, who wrote the following on Sat, 12 Sep 2009: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 02:07:10PM -0700, Seth Goldberg wrote: >> >> I strongly disagree with you in this specific case. Our experience in >> Solaris has demonstrated that PXE firmware is surprisingly robust (when >> the right combination of API calls (i.e. those tested by Windows) are >> used). We have been successfully using PXE-based firmware for netbooting >> for many years now, and we would like to continue to do so. Maintaining >> a driver collection for NICs is futile, IMHO. Using the firmware that's >> there, and that's reliable should be the goal. Not all firmware is our >> enemy :). > > Reliing on proprietary firmware is a compromise. We don't install the blobs > ourselves, so we're not responsible for them, but it is still problematic > because user has less freedom (firmware bugs is just the most notable > consequence of this). > > So our compromise is to use firmware when we have no other choice, or when > the alternative is not reasonable (e.g. not mature or complete enough). > > My goal as maintainer is to encourage development of a usable and complete > driver framework. I'm open to discussion about accepting code for using > hardware support from firmware, but keep in mind it's not our primary goal. > > In the specific case of network hardware, I'm more reluctant because it's > a regression compared to what we had in GRUB Legacy. I agree that choice is very important. In this case, our choice is to rely on PXE firmware, since we've had excellent experiences with it. We added an UNDI network driver to legacy GRUB, so from our perspective, not having PXE in GRUB2 is the regression :). Thanks, --S