From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>
Cc: nigel@nigel.suspend2.net,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Xavier Bestel <xavier.bestel@free.fr>,
Pekka Enberg <penberg@cs.helsinki.fi>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
Subject: Re: Back to the future.
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:15:39 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704261608160.9964@woody.linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200704270008.19017.rjw@sisk.pl>
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>
> Well, I think that much of what Linus is saying indicates that he hasn't tried
> to write any such thing himself. ;-)
That's definitely true. The only interaction I ever had with "hibernation"
(and yes, we should just call it that) is when I was working on s2ram and
cleaning up the PCI device suspend/resume in particular, and trying
(_mostly_ successfully - I think I broke it once or twice mainly due to
interactions with the console, but on the whole I think it mostly worked)
to not break hibernation in the process without actually running it.
> Now that I know much more than before, I can say I agree with Linus on his
> opinion about the separation of s2ram form the snapshot/restore functionality
> (I'll call it 'hibernation' for simplicity from now on).
So my strong opinion on it literally comes from the other end (ie _not_
knowing about hibernation, but trying to work with s2ram, and cursing the
mixups).
> It should be done, because it would make things simpler and cleaner.
> Still, it will be difficult to do without screwing users en masse and
> that's my main concern here.
I do agree. It will inevitably affect a lot of devices. That's always
painful.
> I don't agree that we don't need the tasks freezer for suspending and
> hibernation. We need it, because we need to be sure that the (other) tasks
> will not get us in the way, and that also applies to kernel threads (and I
> don't think the tasks freezer is 'screwing' them, BTW).
I actually feel much less strongly about that, because just separating out
s2ram and hibernate entirely from each other would already really get the
thing _I_ care about taken care of - being able to work on one of the
other without fear of breaking the other one.
And besides, I actually came into the whole discussion because I'm not a
huge fan of thinking that user-land is "better". If the thing can sanely
be done in kernel, I'm actually all for that. What drives me wild is
having three different things, and nobody driving.
It needs somebody who (a) cares (b) has good taste and (c) has enough time
and personal karma to burn that he can actually take the (obviously)
inevitable heat from just doing things right, and convincing people to
select *one* implementation.
That kind of person is really really hard to find. And if you're it,
you're in for some pain ;)
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-04-26 23:16 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 136+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-04-26 6:04 Back to the future Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-26 7:28 ` Pekka Enberg
[not found] ` <1177573348.50 25.224.camel@nigel.suspend2.net>
2007-04-26 7:42 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-26 8:17 ` Pekka Enberg
2007-04-26 9:28 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-26 17:29 ` Luca Tettamanti
2007-04-26 16:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 17:03 ` Xavier Bestel
2007-04-26 17:34 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 20:08 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-26 20:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 20:50 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-27 0:10 ` Olivier Galibert
2007-04-27 10:21 ` Daniel Pittman
2007-04-27 23:19 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-26 21:38 ` Theodore Tso
2007-04-27 10:10 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-04-26 22:08 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-26 22:20 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-26 23:15 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2007-04-27 7:51 ` Pekka Enberg
2007-04-26 17:07 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-26 18:22 ` Chase Venters
2007-04-26 18:50 ` David Lang
2007-04-26 19:56 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-27 4:52 ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-04-27 6:08 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-27 6:18 ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-04-27 6:29 ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-04-27 6:34 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-27 6:50 ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-04-27 7:03 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-27 7:24 ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-04-27 9:50 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-04-27 10:12 ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-04-27 19:07 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-04-28 9:22 ` Pekka Enberg
2007-04-28 13:37 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-05-03 12:06 ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-04 21:52 ` Indan Zupancic
2007-05-05 9:16 ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-05 12:02 ` Indan Zupancic
2007-04-28 10:35 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 18:43 ` David Lang
2007-04-28 19:37 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 21:24 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 21:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 22:04 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 22:08 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 22:41 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 22:26 ` David Lang
2007-04-27 23:21 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 23:01 ` David Lang
2007-04-28 0:02 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 23:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-27 23:45 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 23:57 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-27 23:50 ` David Lang
2007-04-28 0:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-28 6:58 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-04-28 9:16 ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-04-28 18:28 ` David Lang
2007-05-03 17:18 ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-07 2:13 ` David Lang
2007-05-07 3:33 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-05-07 12:48 ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-07 12:52 ` Oliver Neukum
2007-05-07 14:37 ` david
2007-05-07 19:51 ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-07 19:55 ` david
2007-05-07 20:38 ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-08 17:36 ` Disconnect
2007-04-27 23:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-28 0:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-05-05 11:42 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-28 0:50 ` Paul Mackerras
2007-04-28 1:00 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 1:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-28 0:54 ` David Lang
2007-04-28 1:44 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 2:51 ` Daniel Hazelton
2007-04-28 7:00 ` progress meter in s2disk (was Re: Back to the future.) Pavel Machek
2007-04-28 8:50 ` Back to the future Pavel Machek
2007-04-28 9:24 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 16:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-28 17:50 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 21:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-28 23:03 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 23:45 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-04-29 0:01 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-29 5:01 ` Bojan Smojver
2007-04-29 3:43 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-04-29 8:57 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 8:59 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-29 9:32 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-29 8:23 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-29 9:22 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 18:32 ` David Lang
2007-04-28 19:14 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 18:44 ` David Lang
2007-05-03 15:25 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-27 22:07 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-28 1:03 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-04-28 1:15 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 0:51 ` David Lang
2007-04-28 1:25 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-05-03 15:10 ` Pavel Machek
2007-05-03 16:53 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-05-04 7:52 ` David Greaves
2007-05-04 13:27 ` Kyle Moffett
2007-04-28 0:18 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-04-28 1:00 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-04-28 1:05 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-05-03 15:14 ` Pavel Machek
2007-06-01 19:00 ` Eric W. Biederman
2007-04-28 1:08 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 20:44 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-28 19:09 ` Bill Davidsen
2007-04-26 22:40 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-27 5:41 ` Pekka Enberg
2007-04-27 14:55 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-27 21:39 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-26 22:42 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-26 22:24 ` David Lang
2007-04-26 23:12 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-26 22:49 ` David Lang
2007-04-26 23:27 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-26 22:56 ` David Lang
2007-04-27 0:23 ` Olivier Galibert
2007-04-27 12:49 ` Pavel Machek
2007-04-27 21:26 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-04-27 22:12 ` David Lang
2007-04-26 8:38 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-04-26 9:33 ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-04-28 0:28 ` Bojan Smojver
[not found] <8e5l8-7SD-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <8e6Ka-1uR-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <8e6TS-1Id-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <8efu9-6mF-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <8ekWV-6FF-33@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <8el6y-6Sj-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <8elpT-7wY-21@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-04-28 11:04 ` Bodo Eggert
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