From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1755558Ab1KHLaK (ORCPT ); Tue, 8 Nov 2011 06:30:10 -0500 Received: from mail-bw0-f46.google.com ([209.85.214.46]:47450 "EHLO mail-bw0-f46.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1755028Ab1KHLaH (ORCPT ); Tue, 8 Nov 2011 06:30:07 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:29:46 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Enberg X-X-Sender: penberg@tux.localdomain To: Theodore Tso cc: Ingo Molnar , "Frank Ch. Eigler" , Vince Weaver , Pekka Enberg , Anthony Liguori , Avi Kivity , "kvm@vger.kernel.org list" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List" , qemu-devel Developers , Alexander Graf , Blue Swirl , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Am=E9rico_Wang?= , Linus Torvalds , Peter Zijlstra , Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo Subject: Re: [F.A.Q.] perf ABI backwards and forwards compatibility In-Reply-To: <924C4E60-08C9-45A1-B0F3-5717BC295726@MIT.EDU> Message-ID: References: <20111106183132.GA4500@thunk.org> <20111106231953.GD4500@thunk.org> <20111107175942.GA9395@elte.hu> <20111107203514.GG24234@thunk.org> <20111108102235.GA1241@elte.hu> <924C4E60-08C9-45A1-B0F3-5717BC295726@MIT.EDU> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (LFD 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Theodore Tso wrote: >> We have the staging tree because it's a widely acknowledged belief that >> kernel code in the tree tends to improve over time compared to code >> that's sitting out of the tree. Are you disputing that belief? > > Kernel code in the kernel source tree improves; because that's where it > will eventually end up --- linked against the kernel. > > There are all sorts of dynamics in play that don't necessarily apply to > userspace code. > > Otherwise we could just link in all of the userspace code in a Linux > distribution and magically expect it will get better, eh? Not! You just yourself said it's about the people. Why do you now think it's about linking against the kernel? I know I have hacked on various parts of the kernel that I have never linked to my kernel. Pekka From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:48502) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNjsb-00079z-8L for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 06:30:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNjsW-0001t5-DG for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 06:30:13 -0500 Received: from mail-bw0-f45.google.com ([209.85.214.45]:52743) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNjsW-0001rn-6o for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 06:30:08 -0500 Received: by bkbzu5 with SMTP id zu5so316571bkb.4 for ; Tue, 08 Nov 2011 03:30:07 -0800 (PST) Sender: Pekka Enberg Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 13:29:46 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Enberg In-Reply-To: <924C4E60-08C9-45A1-B0F3-5717BC295726@MIT.EDU> Message-ID: References: <20111106183132.GA4500@thunk.org> <20111106231953.GD4500@thunk.org> <20111107175942.GA9395@elte.hu> <20111107203514.GG24234@thunk.org> <20111108102235.GA1241@elte.hu> <924C4E60-08C9-45A1-B0F3-5717BC295726@MIT.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [F.A.Q.] perf ABI backwards and forwards compatibility List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Theodore Tso Cc: Alexander Graf , Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo , Peter Zijlstra , "kvm@vger.kernel.org list" , qemu-devel Developers , Vince Weaver , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List" , Pekka Enberg , Blue Swirl , "Frank Ch. Eigler" , Avi Kivity , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Am=E9rico_Wang?= , Ingo Molnar , Linus Torvalds On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Theodore Tso wrote: >> We have the staging tree because it's a widely acknowledged belief that >> kernel code in the tree tends to improve over time compared to code >> that's sitting out of the tree. Are you disputing that belief? > > Kernel code in the kernel source tree improves; because that's where it > will eventually end up --- linked against the kernel. > > There are all sorts of dynamics in play that don't necessarily apply to > userspace code. > > Otherwise we could just link in all of the userspace code in a Linux > distribution and magically expect it will get better, eh? Not! You just yourself said it's about the people. Why do you now think it's about linking against the kernel? I know I have hacked on various parts of the kernel that I have never linked to my kernel. Pekka