From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1fnNFH-0001Yy-L7 for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 08:07:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37973) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fnMBj-0000OG-95 for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:59:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fnMBg-0001ip-8K for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:59:35 -0400 Received: from eddie.linux-mips.org ([148.251.95.138]:56946 helo=cvs.linux-mips.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fnMBf-0001gW-Ug for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:59:32 -0400 Received: (from localhost user: 'macro', uid#1010) by eddie.linux-mips.org with ESMTP id S23994723AbeHHK7WfHnwi (ORCPT ); Wed, 8 Aug 2018 12:59:22 +0200 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:59:22 +0100 (BST) Sender: "Maciej W. Rozycki" From: "Maciej W. Rozycki" To: Alan Modra cc: Nick Clifton , John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , binutils@sourceware.org, The development of GNU GRUB Subject: Re: Recent removal of a.out and COFF support for sparc In-Reply-To: <20180808015529.GP26457@bubble.grove.modra.org> Message-ID: References: <2d2f1c2a-1715-1348-c35a-ad562a3acbb2@physik.fu-berlin.de> <27449274-9250-97a3-1ff9-8b9c818659d4@physik.fu-berlin.de> <20180808015529.GP26457@bubble.grove.modra.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (LFD 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 148.251.95.138 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 08:07:18 -0400 X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 10:59:36 -0000 Alan, > > So, can we have COFF/a.out support back, at least for sparc*? > > I would rather remove all AOUT support. AOUT as a format has been > obsolete since the advent of ELF in the 1990s. See for example > J. Arnold "ELF: An Object File to Mitigate Mischievous Misoneism", In > Proc. of the Summer USENIX Conference, 1990. > COFF should have died too.. > > The sparc target obsolescence happened here: > https://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2016-09/msg00184.html > > You've had quite a bit of warning, but I guess you just built binutils > with --enable-obsolete, or stayed with older binutils. Well, older > binutils are likely to be better for AOUT anyway. So what's to > prevent you using older binutils for sparc-aout? I don't like things being put that way and I find it against the spirit of free software and its mission to deliver superior solutions that do not put unnecessary limits upon users. If people have a need for a feature, then I think it is the wrong thing to refuse it from the position of authority given that code for that exists. However, as usually, we, as a group of people working on binutils, are a limited resource and cannot afford taking care of less commonly used features we have no use for ourselves. So I think a fair way of putting things would be to offer the resurrection of the feature provided that someone steps in and offers to maintain it properly, so that other people, and general maintainers in particular, do not have to worry about it. I suspect that, just like with MIPS ECOFF support, it will be enough if we have BFD support, so that tools like `objcopy' and `objdump' continue working, and all the hairy linker infrastructure can go. But that would have to be confirmed by actual users. Same about GDB if required; I believe the same basic BFD support will suffice to support the GDB side. FWIW, Maciej