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From: Mikulas Patocka <mpatocka@redhat.com>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	dm-devel@redhat.com, eric.dumazet@gmail.com, mst@redhat.com,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, jasowang@redhat.com,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, edumazet@google.com,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v5] fault-injection: introduce kvmalloc fallback options
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 10:55:44 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1804261045001.9108@file01.intranet.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1524697697.4100.23.camel@HansenPartnership.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1438 bytes --]



On Wed, 25 Apr 2018, James Bottomley wrote:

> > BTW. even developers who compile their own kernel should have this
> > enabled by a CONFIG option - because if the developer sees the option
> > when browsing through menuconfig, he may enable it. If he doesn't see
> > the option, he won't even know that such an option exists.
> 
> I may be an atypical developer but I'd rather have a root canal than
> browse through menuconfig options.  The way to get people to learn
> about new debugging options is to blog about it (or write an lwn.net
> article) which google will find the next time I ask it how I debug XXX.
>  Google (probably as a service to humanity) rarely turns up Kconfig
> options in response to a query.

>From my point of view, this feature should be as little disruptive to the 
developer as possible. It should work automatically behind the scenes 
without the developer or the tester even knowing that it is working. From 
this point of view, binding it to CONFIG_DEBUG_SG (or any other commonly 
used debugging option) would be ideal, because driver developers already 
enable CONFIG_DEBUG_SG, so they'll get this kvmalloc test for free.

>From your point of view, you should introduce a sysfs file and a kernel 
parameter that no one knows about - and then start blogging about it - to 
let people know. Why would you bother people with this knowledge? They'll 
forget about it anyway and won't turn it on.

Mikulas

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mikulas Patocka <mpatocka@redhat.com>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	dm-devel@redhat.com, eric.dumazet@gmail.com, mst@redhat.com,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, jasowang@redhat.com,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, edumazet@google.com,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v5] fault-injection: introduce kvmalloc fallback options
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 10:55:44 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1804261045001.9108@file01.intranet.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1524697697.4100.23.camel@HansenPartnership.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1438 bytes --]



On Wed, 25 Apr 2018, James Bottomley wrote:

> > BTW. even developers who compile their own kernel should have this
> > enabled by a CONFIG option - because if the developer sees the option
> > when browsing through menuconfig, he may enable it. If he doesn't see
> > the option, he won't even know that such an option exists.
> 
> I may be an atypical developer but I'd rather have a root canal than
> browse through menuconfig options.  The way to get people to learn
> about new debugging options is to blog about it (or write an lwn.net
> article) which google will find the next time I ask it how I debug XXX.
>  Google (probably as a service to humanity) rarely turns up Kconfig
> options in response to a query.

>From my point of view, this feature should be as little disruptive to the 
developer as possible. It should work automatically behind the scenes 
without the developer or the tester even knowing that it is working. From 
this point of view, binding it to CONFIG_DEBUG_SG (or any other commonly 
used debugging option) would be ideal, because driver developers already 
enable CONFIG_DEBUG_SG, so they'll get this kvmalloc test for free.

>From your point of view, you should introduce a sysfs file and a kernel 
parameter that no one knows about - and then start blogging about it - to 
let people know. Why would you bother people with this knowledge? They'll 
forget about it anyway and won't turn it on.

Mikulas

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mikulas Patocka <mpatocka@redhat.com>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
Cc: David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	dm-devel@redhat.com, eric.dumazet@gmail.com, mst@redhat.com,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, jasowang@redhat.com,
	Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, edumazet@google.com,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH v5] fault-injection: introduce kvmalloc fallback options
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 10:55:44 -0400 (EDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.02.1804261045001.9108@file01.intranet.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1524697697.4100.23.camel@HansenPartnership.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1436 bytes --]



On Wed, 25 Apr 2018, James Bottomley wrote:

> > BTW. even developers who compile their own kernel should have this
> > enabled by a CONFIG option - because if the developer sees the option
> > when browsing through menuconfig, he may enable it. If he doesn't see
> > the option, he won't even know that such an option exists.
> 
> I may be an atypical developer but I'd rather have a root canal than
> browse through menuconfig options.  The way to get people to learn
> about new debugging options is to blog about it (or write an lwn.net
> article) which google will find the next time I ask it how I debug XXX.
>  Google (probably as a service to humanity) rarely turns up Kconfig
> options in response to a query.

From my point of view, this feature should be as little disruptive to the 
developer as possible. It should work automatically behind the scenes 
without the developer or the tester even knowing that it is working. From 
this point of view, binding it to CONFIG_DEBUG_SG (or any other commonly 
used debugging option) would be ideal, because driver developers already 
enable CONFIG_DEBUG_SG, so they'll get this kvmalloc test for free.

From your point of view, you should introduce a sysfs file and a kernel 
parameter that no one knows about - and then start blogging about it - to 
let people know. Why would you bother people with this knowledge? They'll 
forget about it anyway and won't turn it on.

Mikulas

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-04-26 14:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 218+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-04-18 14:34 [PATCH] net: don't use kvzalloc for DMA memory Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 16:05 ` Eric Dumazet
2018-04-18 16:44   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 16:44   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 16:51     ` Eric Dumazet
2018-04-18 16:51     ` Eric Dumazet
2018-04-18 17:47       ` David Miller
2018-04-18 17:47         ` David Miller
2018-04-18 17:55         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 17:55         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 18:00         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-18 18:00           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-18 17:49       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 17:49       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 16:51     ` Eric Dumazet
2018-04-18 17:46     ` David Miller
2018-04-18 17:53       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 16:12         ` [PATCH] kvmalloc: always use vmalloc if CONFIG_DEBUG_VM Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 16:12         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 16:25           ` Eric Dumazet
2018-04-19 16:25             ` Eric Dumazet
2018-04-19 16:28             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 16:28             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 16:43           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-19 21:27             ` [PATCH] kvmalloc: always use vmalloc if CONFIG_DEBUG_SG Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 21:27             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 16:43           ` [PATCH] kvmalloc: always use vmalloc if CONFIG_DEBUG_VM Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-19 18:28           ` Vlastimil Babka
2018-04-19 18:28           ` Vlastimil Babka
2018-04-19 19:47           ` Andrew Morton
2018-04-19 19:47           ` Andrew Morton
2018-04-19 21:19             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 21:19               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-19 23:22               ` Andrew Morton
2018-04-19 23:22               ` Andrew Morton
2018-04-20 12:16                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-20 12:16                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-20 11:47           ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-20 11:47             ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-20 12:20             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-23 15:25               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-23 15:25               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-20 12:20             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-20 13:08           ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-20 13:08             ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-20 13:41             ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-20 13:41             ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-20 13:49               ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-20 13:49               ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-20 20:56                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-20 20:56                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-20 20:54             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-20 21:02               ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-20 21:02               ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-20 21:21                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-21 14:47                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-22 13:03                     ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-22 13:03                     ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-23 14:24                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-23 15:10                         ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-23 15:10                         ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-23 23:20                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-23 23:20                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-23 14:24                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-23 14:06                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-23 14:06                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-23 15:15                       ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-23 15:15                       ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24  0:06                         ` [PATCH v3] kvmalloc: always use vmalloc if CONFIG_DEBUG_SG Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24  0:06                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24  2:47                           ` David Rientjes
2018-04-24 11:04                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 11:04                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24  3:46                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-24  3:46                           ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-24 12:29                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 12:29                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 17:16                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-24 18:41                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 18:41                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-05-15  1:13                                   ` Joonsoo Kim
2018-05-15  1:13                                   ` Joonsoo Kim
2018-04-24 17:16                               ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-24 12:51                           ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 12:51                             ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 15:50                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 16:29                               ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 17:00                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 17:00                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 17:03                                   ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 17:03                                     ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 17:28                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 17:38                                       ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 17:38                                       ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-25 20:02                                         ` [PATCH] fault-injection: reorder config entries Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 20:02                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26  3:21                                           ` Randy Dunlap
2018-04-26  3:21                                           ` Randy Dunlap
2018-04-25 20:02                                         ` [PATCH v4] fault-injection: introduce kvmalloc fallback options Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 20:02                                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 20:20                                           ` Randy Dunlap
2018-04-25 20:20                                             ` Randy Dunlap
2018-04-25 20:57                                             ` [PATCH v5] " Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 20:57                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 21:11                                               ` Randy Dunlap
2018-04-25 21:11                                                 ` Randy Dunlap
2018-04-25 21:18                                               ` David Rientjes
2018-04-25 21:22                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 21:22                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 22:17                                                   ` [dm-devel] " James Bottomley
2018-04-25 22:17                                                     ` James Bottomley
2018-04-25 22:42                                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 22:42                                                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 22:49                                                       ` David Rientjes
2018-04-25 22:56                                                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 22:56                                                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 12:58                                                       ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-26 12:58                                                         ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-26 14:28                                                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 14:28                                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 14:45                                                           ` [dm-devel] " James Bottomley
2018-04-26 14:45                                                             ` James Bottomley
2018-04-26 15:05                                                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:05                                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:24                                                               ` James Bottomley
2018-04-26 15:24                                                                 ` James Bottomley
2018-04-26 15:44                                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:44                                                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:44                                                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:59                                                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 15:59                                                                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 16:07                                                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 16:07                                                                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 18:49                                                                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 18:54                                                                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 18:54                                                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 19:14                                                                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 19:14                                                                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 19:36                                                                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 19:36                                                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 19:45                                                                               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 19:45                                                                                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 20:05                                                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 20:05                                                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 18:49                                                                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 16:07                                                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 18:58                                                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 18:58                                                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 19:05                                                                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 19:05                                                                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 15:59                                                                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 15:55                                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:55                                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:05                                                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 14:28                                                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 22:42                                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 23:00                                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 23:00                                                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 23:00                                                       ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-25 23:08                                                       ` James Bottomley
2018-04-25 23:08                                                         ` James Bottomley
2018-04-26 14:55                                                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 14:55                                                         ` Mikulas Patocka [this message]
2018-04-26 14:55                                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 14:55                                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:22                                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:22                                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 15:22                                                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 18:58                                                         ` John Stoffel
2018-04-26 21:50                                                           ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 21:50                                                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 22:21                                                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-26 22:52                                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 22:52                                                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-27  8:25                                                                 ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-27  8:25                                                                 ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-27 10:20                                                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-27 10:20                                                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-27 23:20                                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-27 23:20                                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-26 22:21                                                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-30 18:27                                                             ` John Stoffel
2018-04-30 21:07                                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-05-02 13:38                                                                 ` John Stoffel
2018-05-03 17:40                                                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-05-03 17:40                                                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-30 21:07                                                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 17:28                                     ` [PATCH v3] kvmalloc: always use vmalloc if CONFIG_DEBUG_SG Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 16:29                               ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 15:50                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24  0:25                         ` [PATCH] kvmalloc: always use vmalloc if CONFIG_DEBUG_VM Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 13:31                           ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 13:31                           ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 15:30                             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 15:30                               ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 16:12                               ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 16:12                                 ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 16:29                                 ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 16:29                                   ` Michal Hocko
2018-04-24 16:33                                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24 16:33                                   ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-05-02  0:36                                   ` Andrew Morton
2018-05-02  0:36                                     ` Andrew Morton
2018-05-02 13:33                                     ` Mike Snitzer
2018-05-02 13:40                                       ` [dm-devel] " John Stoffel
2018-05-02 13:33                                     ` Mike Snitzer
2018-05-03 17:32                                     ` [PATCH] " Mikulas Patocka
2018-05-03 17:32                                     ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-24  0:25                         ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-21 14:47                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2018-04-20 21:21                 ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-20 20:54             ` Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 17:53       ` [PATCH] net: don't use kvzalloc for DMA memory Mikulas Patocka
2018-04-18 17:46     ` David Miller
2018-04-18 17:45   ` David Miller
2018-04-18 17:55   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2018-04-18 20:38     ` Eric Dumazet
2018-04-19  4:00       ` Michael S. Tsirkin

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