From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44FEDC64EBD for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 23:28:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B722082A for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 23:28:56 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org E9B722082A Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=canonical.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726543AbeJCGOn (ORCPT ); Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:14:43 -0400 Received: from youngberry.canonical.com ([91.189.89.112]:47711 "EHLO youngberry.canonical.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1725746AbeJCGOm (ORCPT ); Wed, 3 Oct 2018 02:14:42 -0400 Received: from static-50-53-48-205.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net ([50.53.48.205] helo=[192.168.192.153]) by youngberry.canonical.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1g7U5w-0001rP-Ee; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 23:28:48 +0000 Subject: Re: [PATCH security-next v4 23/32] selinux: Remove boot parameter To: James Morris , Kees Cook Cc: Jordan Glover , Stephen Smalley , Paul Moore , Casey Schaufler , Tetsuo Handa , "Schaufler, Casey" , linux-security-module , Jonathan Corbet , "open list:DOCUMENTATION" , linux-arch , LKML References: <20181002005505.6112-1-keescook@chromium.org> <20181002005505.6112-24-keescook@chromium.org> <785ef6a9-ae46-3533-0348-74bcf6f10928@tycho.nsa.gov> <809f1cfd-077b-ee58-51ba-b22daf46d12b@tycho.nsa.gov> From: John Johansen Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=john.johansen@canonical.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBE5mrPoBEADAk19PsgVgBKkImmR2isPQ6o7KJhTTKjJdwVbkWSnNn+o6Up5knKP1f49E BQlceWg1yp/NwbR8ad+eSEO/uma/K+PqWvBptKC9SWD97FG4uB4/caomLEU97sLQMtnvGWdx rxVRGM4anzWYMgzz5TZmIiVTZ43Ou5VpaS1Vz1ZSxP3h/xKNZr/TcW5WQai8u3PWVnbkjhSZ PHv1BghN69qxEPomrJBm1gmtx3ZiVmFXluwTmTgJOkpFol7nbJ0ilnYHrA7SX3CtR1upeUpM a/WIanVO96WdTjHHIa43fbhmQube4txS3FcQLOJVqQsx6lE9B7qAppm9hQ10qPWwdfPy/+0W 6AWtNu5ASiGVCInWzl2HBqYd/Zll93zUq+NIoCn8sDAM9iH+wtaGDcJywIGIn+edKNtK72AM gChTg/j1ZoWH6ZeWPjuUfubVzZto1FMoGJ/SF4MmdQG1iQNtf4sFZbEgXuy9cGi2bomF0zvy BJSANpxlKNBDYKzN6Kz09HUAkjlFMNgomL/cjqgABtAx59L+dVIZfaF281pIcUZzwvh5+JoG eOW5uBSMbE7L38nszooykIJ5XrAchkJxNfz7k+FnQeKEkNzEd2LWc3QF4BQZYRT6PHHga3Rg ykW5+1wTMqJILdmtaPbXrF3FvnV0LRPcv4xKx7B3fGm7ygdoowARAQABzR1Kb2huIEpvaGFu c2VuIDxqb2huQGpqbXgubmV0PsLBegQTAQoAJAIbAwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIeAQIX gAUCTo0YVwIZAQAKCRAFLzZwGNXD2LxJD/9TJZCpwlncTgYeraEMeDfkWv8c1IsM1j0AmE4V tL+fE780ZVP9gkjgkdYSxt7ecETPTKMaZSisrl1RwqU0oogXdXQSpxrGH01icu/2n0jcYSqY KggPxy78BGs2LZq4XPfJTZmHZGnXGq/eDr/mSnj0aavBJmMZ6jbiPz6yHtBYPZ9fdo8btczw P41YeWoIu26/8II6f0Xm3VC5oAa8v7Rd+RWZa8TMwlhzHExxel3jtI7IzzOsnmE9/8Dm0ARD 5iTLCXwR1cwI/J9BF/S1Xv8PN1huT3ItCNdatgp8zqoJkgPVjmvyL64Q3fEkYbfHOWsaba9/ kAVtBNz9RTFh7IHDfECVaToujBd7BtPqr+qIjWFadJD3I5eLCVJvVrrolrCATlFtN3YkQs6J n1AiIVIU3bHR8Gjevgz5Ll6SCGHgRrkyRpnSYaU/uLgn37N6AYxi/QAL+by3CyEFLjzWAEvy Q8bq3Iucn7JEbhS/J//dUqLoeUf8tsGi00zmrITZYeFYARhQMtsfizIrVDtz1iPf/ZMp5gRB niyjpXn131cm3M3gv6HrQsAGnn8AJru8GDi5XJYIco/1+x/qEiN2nClaAOpbhzN2eUvPDY5W 0q3bA/Zp2mfG52vbRI+tQ0Br1Hd/vsntUHO903mMZep2NzN3BZ5qEvPvG4rW5Zq2DpybWc7B TQROZqz6ARAAoqw6kkBhWyM1fvgamAVjeZ6nKEfnRWbkC94L1EsJLup3Wb2X0ABNOHSkbSD4 pAuC2tKF/EGBt5CP7QdVKRGcQzAd6b2c1Idy9RLw6w4gi+nn/d1Pm1kkYhkSi5zWaIg0m5RQ Uk+El8zkf5tcE/1N0Z5OK2JhjwFu5bX0a0l4cFGWVQEciVMDKRtxMjEtk3SxFalm6ZdQ2pp2 822clnq4zZ9mWu1d2waxiz+b5Ia4weDYa7n41URcBEUbJAgnicJkJtCTwyIxIW2KnVyOrjvk QzIBvaP0FdP2vvZoPMdlCIzOlIkPLgxE0IWueTXeBJhNs01pb8bLqmTIMlu4LvBELA/veiaj j5s8y542H/aHsfBf4MQUhHxO/BZV7h06KSUfIaY7OgAgKuGNB3UiaIUS5+a9gnEOQLDxKRy/ a7Q1v9S+Nvx+7j8iH3jkQJhxT6ZBhZGRx0gkH3T+F0nNDm5NaJUsaswgJrqFZkUGd2Mrm1qn KwXiAt8SIcENdq33R0KKKRC80Xgwj8Jn30vXLSG+NO1GH0UMcAxMwy/pvk6LU5JGjZR73J5U LVhH4MLbDggD3mPaiG8+fotTrJUPqqhg9hyUEPpYG7sqt74Xn79+CEZcjLHzyl6vAFE2W0kx lLtQtUZUHO36afFv8qGpO3ZqPvjBUuatXF6tvUQCwf3H6XMAEQEAAcLBXwQYAQoACQUCTmas +gIbDAAKCRAFLzZwGNXD2D/XD/0ddM/4ai1b+Tl1jznKajX3kG+MeEYeI4f40vco3rOLrnRG FOcbyyfVF69MKepie4OwoI1jcTU0ADecnbWnDNHpr0SczxBMro3bnrLhsmvjunTYIvssBZtB 4aVJjuLILPUlnhFqa7fbVq0ZQjbiV/rt2jBENdm9pbJZ6GjnpYIcAbPCCa/ffL4/SQRSYHXo hGiiS4y5jBTmK5ltfewLOw02fkexH+IJFrrGBXDSg6n2Sgxnn++NF34fXcm9piaw3mKsICm+ 0hdNh4afGZ6IWV8PG2teooVDp4dYih++xX/XS8zBCc1O9w4nzlP2gKzlqSWbhiWpifRJBFa4 WtAeJTdXYd37j/BI4RWWhnyw7aAPNGj33ytGHNUf6Ro2/jtj4tF1y/QFXqjJG/wGjpdtRfbt UjqLHIsvfPNNJq/958p74ndACidlWSHzj+Op26KpbFnmwNO0psiUsnhvHFwPO/vAbl3RsR5+ 0Ro+hvs2cEmQuv9r/bDlCfpzp2t3cK+rhxUqisOx8DZfz1BnkaoCRFbvvvk+7L/fomPntGPk qJciYE8TGHkZw1hOku+4OoM2GB5nEDlj+2TF/jLQ+EipX9PkPJYvxfRlC6dK8PKKfX9KdfmA IcgHfnV1jSn+8yH2djBPtKiqW0J69aIsyx7iV/03paPCjJh7Xq9vAzydN5U/UA== Organization: Canonical Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 16:28:44 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 10/02/2018 03:06 PM, James Morris wrote: > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018, Kees Cook wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 11:57 AM, John Johansen >> wrote: >>> Under the current scheme >>> >>> lsm.enabled=selinux >>> >>> could actually mean selinux,yama,loadpin,something_else are >>> enabled. If we extend this behavior to when full stacking lands >>> >>> lsm.enabled=selinux,yama >>> >>> might mean selinux,yama,apparmor,loadpin,something_else >>> >>> and what that list is will vary from kernel to kernel, which I think >>> is harder for the user than the lsm.enabled list being what is >>> actually enabled at boot >> >> Ah, I think I missed this in your earlier emails. What you don't like >> here is that "lsm.enable=" is additive. You want it to be explicit. >> > > This is a path to madness. > > How about enable flags set ONLY per LSM: > > lsm.selinux.enable=x > lsm.apparmor.enable=x > why add the lsm. prefix? I think if we go this route selinux.enable=x apparmor.enable=x is a little cleaner the question then becomes is this easier for users? Doing something similar to this was discussed earlier but its more tedious to type each of these out, and since they are separate options they can get spread out making it easy to miss one when you are changing your boot options. I honestly don't think we are going to come to a consensus on what is best for users because different sets of users have different priorities. But I do think we need to come up with something cleaner than v3 > With no lsm.enable, and removing selinux=x and apparmor=x. > this will break the user api, not just the distro/builder kernel config. I do think it is probably worth doing, but not everyone agrees. > Yes this will break existing docs, but they can be updated for newer > kernel versions to say "replace selinux=0 with lsm.selinux.enable=0" from > kernel X onwards. > yes docs can be updated but it does take time to propagate out and their are always the dozens of blog, and forum posts etc that google will drag up that won't get updated > Surely distro packages and bootloaders are able to cope with changes to > kernel parameters? > yes, but users who have been taught to add certain incantations to their kernel parameters find it a lot harder > We can either take a one-time hit now, or build new usability debt, which > will confuse people forever. > I'm not opposed to taking a one-time hit for usability in the future.