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([2001:b07:6468:f312:a9f0:cbc3:a8a6:fc56]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a8sm202969wmc.20.2020.02.10.03.25.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Feb 2020 03:25:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: VW ELF loader To: David Gibson References: <8420784f-b4c7-9864-8534-b94dbc5f74ff@redhat.com> <71d1cc16-f07d-481d-096b-17ee326157bb@ozlabs.ru> <20200205060634.GI60221@umbus.fritz.box> <62d62fab-46a4-240b-037b-409ba859b93d@redhat.com> <47e6a49d-f1c7-aaf6-b9ef-7e81773cff6e@ozlabs.ru> <8993c6b4-2a2c-b7e5-8342-4db480d0af9d@redhat.com> <20200210073008.GE22584@umbus.fritz.box> From: Paolo Bonzini Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 12:25:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200210073008.GE22584@umbus.fritz.box> Content-Language: en-US X-MC-Unique: D8GyLo1dPEegS3PqLCMsIQ-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 207.211.31.81 X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Thomas Huth , Alexey Kardashevskiy , qemu-devel , Cornelia Huck , Christian Borntraeger , Stefano Garzarella Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 10/02/20 08:30, David Gibson wrote: >> Anything you put in the host is potential attack surface. > Ok, it is attack surface you're concerned about. That wasn't totally > clear before this point. Part that, part having to add backend hooks that weren't needed so far. >> Plus, you're not doing a different thing than anyone else and as >> you've found out it may be easy for block device but not for >> everything else. > > Uh.. was that supposed to be "we *are* doing a different thing than > anyone else"? Alexey's question was "what is exactly the benefit", so "not doing a different thing" is the answer (one of them). >> Every platform that QEMU supports is just using a firmware to do >> firmware things; it can be U-Boot, EDK-2, SLOF, SeaBIOS, qboot, with >> varying level of complexity. Some are doing -kernel in QEMU rather than >> firmware, but that's where things end. > > Well, yeah, but AIUI those platforms actually have a defined hardware > environment on which the firmware is running. For PAPR we don't, we > *only* have a specification for the "hardware"+"firmware" environment > as seen by the OS together. PAPR is a specification for the environment as seen by the OS. But "-M pseries" is already a defined hardware environment on which SLOF is running. There's nothing that prevents you from defining more of that environment in order to run Linux (for petitboot) or your own pseudo-OpenFirmware driver provider inside it. Paolo