From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8BABC10F11 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:15:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630282084B for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:15:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727546AbfDJHO7 (ORCPT ); Wed, 10 Apr 2019 03:14:59 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:41252 "EHLO mx1.suse.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726052AbfDJHO6 (ORCPT ); Wed, 10 Apr 2019 03:14:58 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB876ADDB; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:14:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 00/39] x86/KVM: Xen HVM guest support To: Ankur Arora , Joao Martins Cc: Paolo Bonzini , kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Boris Ostrovsky , =?UTF-8?B?UmFkaW0gS3LEjW3DocWZ?= , Thomas Gleixner , Ingo Molnar , Borislav Petkov , "H. Peter Anvin" , x86@kernel.org, Stefano Stabellini , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org References: <20190220201609.28290-1-joao.m.martins@oracle.com> <35051310-c497-8ad5-4434-1b8426a317d2@redhat.com> <8b1f4912-4f92-69ae-ae01-d899d5640572@oracle.com> <3ee91f33-2973-c2db-386f-afbf138081b4@redhat.com> <59676804-786d-3df8-7752-8e45dec6d65b@oracle.com> <94738323-ebdf-d58e-55b6-313e27c923b0@oracle.com> <585163c2-8dea-728d-7556-9cb3559f0eca@suse.com> <97808492-58ee-337f-c894-900b34b7b1a5@oracle.com> <59deb041-2b5d-8451-32c7-644fe36e053b@suse.com> <8e2e1d56-3490-365c-e2de-c3fd262518ba@oracle.com> From: Juergen Gross Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jgross@suse.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFOMcBYBCACgGjqjoGvbEouQZw/ToiBg9W98AlM2QHV+iNHsEs7kxWhKMjrioyspZKOB ycWxw3ie3j9uvg9EOB3aN4xiTv4qbnGiTr3oJhkB1gsb6ToJQZ8uxGq2kaV2KL9650I1SJve dYm8Of8Zd621lSmoKOwlNClALZNew72NjJLEzTalU1OdT7/i1TXkH09XSSI8mEQ/ouNcMvIJ NwQpd369y9bfIhWUiVXEK7MlRgUG6MvIj6Y3Am/BBLUVbDa4+gmzDC9ezlZkTZG2t14zWPvx XP3FAp2pkW0xqG7/377qptDmrk42GlSKN4z76ELnLxussxc7I2hx18NUcbP8+uty4bMxABEB AAG0H0p1ZXJnZW4gR3Jvc3MgPGpncm9zc0BzdXNlLmNvbT6JATkEEwECACMFAlOMcK8CGwMH CwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCw3p3WKL8TL8eZB/9G0juS/kDY9LhEXseh mE9U+iA1VsLhgDqVbsOtZ/S14LRFHczNd/Lqkn7souCSoyWsBs3/wO+OjPvxf7m+Ef+sMtr0 G5lCWEWa9wa0IXx5HRPW/ScL+e4AVUbL7rurYMfwCzco+7TfjhMEOkC+va5gzi1KrErgNRHH kg3PhlnRY0Udyqx++UYkAsN4TQuEhNN32MvN0Np3WlBJOgKcuXpIElmMM5f1BBzJSKBkW0Jc Wy3h2Wy912vHKpPV/Xv7ZwVJ27v7KcuZcErtptDevAljxJtE7aJG6WiBzm+v9EswyWxwMCIO RoVBYuiocc51872tRGywc03xaQydB+9R7BHPuQENBFOMcBYBCADLMfoA44MwGOB9YT1V4KCy vAfd7E0BTfaAurbG+Olacciz3yd09QOmejFZC6AnoykydyvTFLAWYcSCdISMr88COmmCbJzn sHAogjexXiif6ANUUlHpjxlHCCcELmZUzomNDnEOTxZFeWMTFF9Rf2k2F0Tl4E5kmsNGgtSa aMO0rNZoOEiD/7UfPP3dfh8JCQ1VtUUsQtT1sxos8Eb/HmriJhnaTZ7Hp3jtgTVkV0ybpgFg w6WMaRkrBh17mV0z2ajjmabB7SJxcouSkR0hcpNl4oM74d2/VqoW4BxxxOD1FcNCObCELfIS auZx+XT6s+CE7Qi/c44ibBMR7hyjdzWbABEBAAGJAR8EGAECAAkFAlOMcBYCGwwACgkQsN6d 1ii/Ey9D+Af/WFr3q+bg/8v5tCknCtn92d5lyYTBNt7xgWzDZX8G6/pngzKyWfedArllp0Pn fgIXtMNV+3t8Li1Tg843EXkP7+2+CQ98MB8XvvPLYAfW8nNDV85TyVgWlldNcgdv7nn1Sq8g HwB2BHdIAkYce3hEoDQXt/mKlgEGsLpzJcnLKimtPXQQy9TxUaLBe9PInPd+Ohix0XOlY+Uk QFEx50Ki3rSDl2Zt2tnkNYKUCvTJq7jvOlaPd6d/W0tZqpyy7KVay+K4aMobDsodB3dvEAs6 ScCnh03dDAFgIq5nsB11j3KPKdVoPlfucX2c7kGNH+LUMbzqV6beIENfNexkOfxHf4kBrQQY AQgAIBYhBIUSZ3Lo9gSUpdCX97DendYovxMvBQJa3fDQAhsCAIEJELDendYovxMvdiAEGRYI AB0WIQRTLbB6QfY48x44uB6AXGG7T9hjvgUCWt3w0AAKCRCAXGG7T9hjvk2LAP99B/9FenK/ 1lfifxQmsoOrjbZtzCS6OKxPqOLHaY47BgEAqKKn36YAPpbk09d2GTVetoQJwiylx/Z9/mQI CUbQMg1pNQf9EjA1bNcMbnzJCgt0P9Q9wWCLwZa01SnQWFz8Z4HEaKldie+5bHBL5CzVBrLv 81tqX+/j95llpazzCXZW2sdNL3r8gXqrajSox7LR2rYDGdltAhQuISd2BHrbkQVEWD4hs7iV 1KQHe2uwXbKlguKPhk5ubZxqwsg/uIHw0qZDk+d0vxjTtO2JD5Jv/CeDgaBX4Emgp0NYs8IC UIyKXBtnzwiNv4cX9qKlz2Gyq9b+GdcLYZqMlIBjdCz0yJvgeb3WPNsCOanvbjelDhskx9gd 6YUUFFqgsLtrKpCNyy203a58g2WosU9k9H+LcheS37Ph2vMVTISMszW9W8gyORSgmw== Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 09:14:55 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8e2e1d56-3490-365c-e2de-c3fd262518ba@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 10/04/2019 08:55, Ankur Arora wrote: > On 2019-04-08 10:04 p.m., Juergen Gross wrote: >> On 08/04/2019 19:31, Joao Martins wrote: >>> On 4/8/19 11:42 AM, Juergen Gross wrote: >>>> On 08/04/2019 12:36, Joao Martins wrote: >>>>> On 4/8/19 7:44 AM, Juergen Gross wrote: >>>>>> On 12/03/2019 18:14, Joao Martins wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/22/19 4:59 PM, Paolo Bonzini wrote: >>>>>>>> On 21/02/19 12:45, Joao Martins wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2/20/19 9:09 PM, Paolo Bonzini wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 20/02/19 21:15, Joao Martins wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>   2. PV Driver support (patches 17 - 39) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>   We start by redirecting hypercalls from the backend to >>>>>>>>>>> routines >>>>>>>>>>>   which emulate the behaviour that PV backends expect i.e. grant >>>>>>>>>>>   table and interdomain events. Next, we add support for late >>>>>>>>>>>   initialization of xenbus, followed by implementing >>>>>>>>>>>   frontend/backend communication mechanisms (i.e. grant >>>>>>>>>>> tables and >>>>>>>>>>>   interdomain event channels). Finally, introduce xen-shim.ko, >>>>>>>>>>>   which will setup a limited Xen environment. This uses the >>>>>>>>>>> added >>>>>>>>>>>   functionality of Xen specific shared memory (grant tables) and >>>>>>>>>>>   notifications (event channels). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am a bit worried by the last patches, they seem really >>>>>>>>>> brittle and >>>>>>>>>> prone to breakage.  I don't know Xen well enough to understand >>>>>>>>>> if the >>>>>>>>>> lack of support for GNTMAP_host_map is fixable, but if not, >>>>>>>>>> you have to >>>>>>>>>> define a completely different hypercall. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I guess Ankur already answered this; so just to stack this on >>>>>>>>> top of his comment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The xen_shim_domain() is only meant to handle the case where >>>>>>>>> the backend >>>>>>>>> has/can-have full access to guest memory [i.e. netback and >>>>>>>>> blkback would work >>>>>>>>> with similar assumptions as vhost?]. For the normal case, where >>>>>>>>> a backend *in a >>>>>>>>> guest* maps and unmaps other guest memory, this is not >>>>>>>>> applicable and these >>>>>>>>> changes don't affect that case. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> IOW, the PV backend here sits on the hypervisor, and the >>>>>>>>> hypercalls aren't >>>>>>>>> actual hypercalls but rather invoking shim_hypercall(). The >>>>>>>>> call chain would go >>>>>>>>> more or less like: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>   gnttab_map_refs(map_ops, pages) >>>>>>>>>     HYPERVISOR_grant_table_op(GNTTABOP_map_grant_ref,...) >>>>>>>>>       shim_hypercall() >>>>>>>>>         shim_hcall_gntmap() >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Our reasoning was that given we are already in KVM, why mapping >>>>>>>>> a page if the >>>>>>>>> user (i.e. the kernel PV backend) is himself? The lack of >>>>>>>>> GNTMAP_host_map is how >>>>>>>>> the shim determines its user doesn't want to map the page. >>>>>>>>> Also, there's another >>>>>>>>> issue where PV backends always need a struct page to reference >>>>>>>>> the device >>>>>>>>> inflight data as Ankur pointed out. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ultimately it's up to the Xen people.  It does make their API >>>>>>>> uglier, >>>>>>>> especially the in/out change for the parameter.  If you can at >>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>> avoid that, it would alleviate my concerns quite a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my view, we have two options overall: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) Make it explicit, the changes the PV drivers we have to make in >>>>>>> order to support xen_shim_domain(). This could mean e.g. a) add a >>>>>>> callback >>>>>>> argument to gnttab_map_refs() that is invoked for every page that >>>>>>> gets looked up >>>>>>> successfully, and inside this callback the PV driver may update >>>>>>> it's tracking >>>>>>> page. Here we no longer have this in/out parameter in >>>>>>> gnttab_map_refs, and all >>>>>>> shim_domain specific bits would be a little more abstracted from >>>>>>> Xen PV >>>>>>> backends. See netback example below the scissors mark. Or b) have >>>>>>> sort of a >>>>>>> translate_gref() and put_gref() API that Xen PV drivers use which >>>>>>> make it even >>>>>>> more explicit that there's no grant ops involved. The latter is >>>>>>> more invasive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) The second option is to support guest grant mapping/unmapping >>>>>>> [*] to allow >>>>>>> hosting PV backends inside the guest. This would remove the Xen >>>>>>> changes in this >>>>>>> series completely. But it would require another guest being used >>>>>>> as netback/blkback/xenstored, and less performance than 1) >>>>>>> (though, in theory, >>>>>>> it would be equivalent to what does Xen with grants/events). The >>>>>>> only changes in >>>>>>> Linux Xen code is adding xenstored domain support, but that is >>>>>>> useful on its own >>>>>>> outside the scope of this work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there's value on both; 1) is probably more familiar for >>>>>>> KVM users >>>>>>> perhaps (as it is similar to what vhost does?) while  2) equates >>>>>>> to implementing >>>>>>> Xen disagregation capabilities in KVM. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thoughts? Xen maintainers what's your take on this? >>>>>> >>>>>> What I'd like best would be a new handle (e.g. xenhost_t *) used >>>>>> as an >>>>>> abstraction layer for this kind of stuff. It should be passed to the >>>>>> backends and those would pass it on to low-level Xen drivers (xenbus, >>>>>> event channels, grant table, ...). >>>>>> >>>>> So if IIRC backends would use the xenhost layer to access grants or >>>>> frames >>>>> referenced by grants, and that would grok into some of this. IOW, >>>>> you would have >>>>> two implementors of xenhost: one for nested remote/local >>>>> events+grants and >>>>> another for this "shim domain" ? >>>> >>>> As I'd need that for nested Xen I guess that would make it 3 variants. >>>> Probably the xen-shim variant would need more hooks, but that should be >>>> no problem. >>>> >>> I probably messed up in the short description but "nested remote/local >>> events+grants" was referring to nested Xen (FWIW remote meant L0 and >>> local L1). >>> So maybe only 2 variants are needed? >> >> I need one xenhost variant for the "normal" case as today: talking to >> the single hypervisor (or in nested case: to the L1 hypervisor). >> >> Then I need a variant for the nested case talking to L0 hypervisor. >> >> And you need a variant talking to xen-shim. >> >> The first two variants can be active in the same system in case of >> nested Xen: the backends of L2 dom0 are talking to L1 hypervisor, >> while its frontends are talking with L0 hypervisor. > Thanks this is clarifying. > > So, essentially backend drivers with a xenhost_t handle, communicate > with Xen low-level drivers etc using the same handle, however, if they > communicate with frontend drivers for accessing the "real" world, > they exclusively use standard mechanisms (Linux or hypercalls)? This should be opaque to the backends. The xenhost_t handle should have a pointer to a function vector for relevant grant-, event- and Xenstore- related functions. Calls to such functions should be done via an inline function with the xenhost_t handle being one parameter, that function will then call the correct implementation. > In this scenario L2 dom0 xen-netback and L2 dom0 xen-netfront should > just be able to use Linux interfaces. But if L2 dom0 xenbus-backend > needs to talk to L2 dom0 xenbus-frontend then do you see them layered > or are they still exclusively talking via the standard mechanisms? The distinction is made via the function vector in xenhost_t. So the only change in backends needed is the introduction of xenhost_t. Whether we want to introduce xenhost_t in frontends, too, is TBD. Juergen From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80B4C10F11 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:15:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.xenproject.org (lists.xenproject.org [192.237.175.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 944672084B for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:15:24 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 944672084B Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=suse.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=xen-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.xenproject.org) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hE7Ro-0000WS-4z; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:15:04 +0000 Received: from us1-rack-dfw2.inumbo.com ([104.130.134.6]) by lists.xenproject.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hE7Rl-0000WN-W5 for xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:15:02 +0000 X-Inumbo-ID: 58b5ac3e-5b60-11e9-92d7-bc764e045a96 Received: from mx1.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.15]) by us1-rack-dfw2.inumbo.com (Halon) with ESMTPS id 58b5ac3e-5b60-11e9-92d7-bc764e045a96; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:14:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB876ADDB; Wed, 10 Apr 2019 07:14:56 +0000 (UTC) To: Ankur Arora , Joao Martins References: <20190220201609.28290-1-joao.m.martins@oracle.com> <35051310-c497-8ad5-4434-1b8426a317d2@redhat.com> <8b1f4912-4f92-69ae-ae01-d899d5640572@oracle.com> <3ee91f33-2973-c2db-386f-afbf138081b4@redhat.com> <59676804-786d-3df8-7752-8e45dec6d65b@oracle.com> <94738323-ebdf-d58e-55b6-313e27c923b0@oracle.com> <585163c2-8dea-728d-7556-9cb3559f0eca@suse.com> <97808492-58ee-337f-c894-900b34b7b1a5@oracle.com> <59deb041-2b5d-8451-32c7-644fe36e053b@suse.com> <8e2e1d56-3490-365c-e2de-c3fd262518ba@oracle.com> From: Juergen Gross Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jgross@suse.com; 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Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8e2e1d56-3490-365c-e2de-c3fd262518ba@oracle.com> Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] [PATCH RFC 00/39] x86/KVM: Xen HVM guest support X-BeenThere: xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Xen developer discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Stefano Stabellini , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, =?UTF-8?B?UmFkaW0gS3LEjW3DocWZ?= , x86@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Ingo Molnar , Borislav Petkov , "H. Peter Anvin" , Paolo Bonzini , Boris Ostrovsky , Thomas Gleixner Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xenproject.org Sender: "Xen-devel" T24gMTAvMDQvMjAxOSAwODo1NSwgQW5rdXIgQXJvcmEgd3JvdGU6Cj4gT24gMjAxOS0wNC0wOCAx MDowNCBwLm0uLCBKdWVyZ2VuIEdyb3NzIHdyb3RlOgo+PiBPbiAwOC8wNC8yMDE5IDE5OjMxLCBK b2FvIE1hcnRpbnMgd3JvdGU6Cj4+PiBPbiA0LzgvMTkgMTE6NDIgQU0sIEp1ZXJnZW4gR3Jvc3Mg d3JvdGU6Cj4+Pj4gT24gMDgvMDQvMjAxOSAxMjozNiwgSm9hbyBNYXJ0aW5zIHdyb3RlOgo+Pj4+ PiBPbiA0LzgvMTkgNzo0NCBBTSwgSnVlcmdlbiBHcm9zcyB3cm90ZToKPj4+Pj4+IE9uIDEyLzAz LzIwMTkgMTg6MTQsIEpvYW8gTWFydGlucyB3cm90ZToKPj4+Pj4+PiBPbiAyLzIyLzE5IDQ6NTkg UE0sIFBhb2xvIEJvbnppbmkgd3JvdGU6Cj4+Pj4+Pj4+IE9uIDIxLzAyLzE5IDEyOjQ1LCBKb2Fv IE1hcnRpbnMgd3JvdGU6Cj4+Pj4+Pj4+PiBPbiAyLzIwLzE5IDk6MDkgUE0sIFBhb2xvIEJvbnpp bmkgd3JvdGU6Cj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4gT24gMjAvMDIvMTkgMjE6MTUsIEpvYW8gTWFydGlucyB3cm90 ZToKPj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4gwqAgMi4gUFYgRHJpdmVyIHN1cHBvcnQgKHBhdGNoZXMgMTcgLSAzOSkK 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