From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDEFC433E0 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:17:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE13320716 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:17:12 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net header.i=@gmx.net header.b="O0q/NzKZ" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728676AbgHKLRM (ORCPT ); Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:17:12 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:33133 "EHLO mout.gmx.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728469AbgHKLRL (ORCPT ); Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:17:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1597144625; bh=ArWWT++QREqD7VNUQE7P2cnneq+NQHEcAhtync7CW38=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=O0q/NzKZUaduq+CoBDTe8WDKLDR3bQwjVuORvCnorNmp+JurqPaY/uBaHfiFUlthr mLV7+sSDWI/YWxxOYIbWw89pSNwG015Z1y3ZS3glQZYwzgInwOR53bI9hLan7i/8fZ P+RyMv7sRoz4vC8YqHiwZLyKJ4bIQF7/rjI2fwu4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.17.64] ([146.198.107.76]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MrQEx-1kSMLu01B9-00oZuo; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 13:17:05 +0200 Subject: Re: Pseudoterminal terminology in POSIX To: austin-group-l@opengroup.org Cc: Larry Dwyer , linux-man , libc-alpha References: <6425d636-7f48-3a73-ef0e-7bb5b991360c@gmail.com> From: Dirk Fieldhouse Organization: Speaking personally Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 12:17:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6425d636-7f48-3a73-ef0e-7bb5b991360c@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:EbU4YiDqlAx+IMWErFqvDmYW46MdtiC+/V01db1tBBVDjX0rKUp pN1WxhW6L7yJ5RJSWEyAryjyOBwqYNthHlJUShihFzW2T4WJnas57rQD5rJUSjcR00Fll5b RF92tryzkFL1WnIWwYrzOvaQ/TXMh4OUZxUtBMAGhgwYqp3oYep8DAm22in523HTxPY2kPP MZLkjwJrF/eYQe1qKEdGg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:QSp6ZNArVHk=:fF5MIW8zIgc1yyPXJX+Uq/ r4V4Mwj3YHOUSvo9g+j3lZbqya/yYihrB+/ijuncBvySwOqhnftl+RDMf8OtOyZEngQiXU+7O RqBNh7ap5gEshlVvB0q2KXq2QkYZkZODxy2Xpv/9cZWSrlOT/siw4TRWtv1gWcjAYf6mtb98A EG7kAYCorH7E/f8v3PwdwFqXBcErp9DS+wJvpSaqftLYUzlrq7xaycj5LCETieDq5CIXzHaN1 r1Z9IS/1Akk6mQEZgsg4wgNGmkAc1LTVlRgSreduAQDKRJenD9AvXCDobkhsFRHxG3CJR2nU8 EJUfWBEkM+f1SmDtXaLHrVR4XGtTkDRhnzbpjy7TfLKsTVXds9nijW4Bxdzq0b3F/liFVk8EW 64UpZipkXvAiqrCPOhOlyzPB6xYPrTDL6bOO9VfSM/acpEQRkq6Hogc5EZQ7ZtoBHkOfd5BrE DcACr/W7uq1HHfi+e0cA+Ty/jQmVDkSRn2ek2wDbZ6rbrjSJVihapaDGY8nwq8sU/0snDQ1Lc 3Lc8QpjZsJLKsgdaoNKhp7VkSBEdgyRo7+W2Rr79XjpJ208deMCLRjnSndVVToJ4D6TEoXL+z NT/P/7IjwvWujrzUZQjOAS2uLr7/Whlgni1gEXdm0ENwf01+fXPKmxsuFOCQdRUBYrOTYJg0f 8v8Rqv3biC6OjY2teytP4c8qz6jrhOBqRA6bte/mqF/UBGWSx880tQlxJFDF3BJtf116NKGt5 EhxY+Xs4DpjtcRwDh5+q2zdZJTNFUhr19uZAXKFK3RXalwUCrM4TIf5S4V4GnbZWSYzB1q9PM wg9QMOtoL/ARO3Shi2AhqopREBOH1YCXozXnpSGv2pR/kWSr4MCA8l1Jv2b3RXlBhK875ewTt mCeDLI7+NLnYtTIUWmZU1w3hbfI0vqh1n0L/UbrrUo+ier5WnJZ/cxMSa+7KTAI2zK2L1NsIu eJESPcHaU1L4raEVUVUuDyTvDR/etoujzZXtgxAzTLXWBVsvnL2csfakTwL7tCH0L9pb9p5lE lKg6fb0WPQEkjTWptPm96iBRpZ0a26CBasHgZYgCxmkcj1L99eckUwBHGy5MlwxwMVOsR97us EAZrxCVN8pgXaxGCScn4UPWwZ+3d13ueI546Li7xmbx7eTIit+UZgVV15eO+RAtAcMMwl2ffc WQp2UBU83DR0IFtuOLBQ4lc6se97EOkwOL4uE/knbMISdUBRL8BK02KWt9nXhU5zuDQm4Nh0w rw0RLQloMfjr9X6zme5OB7pntAhfJSk+nEsXR8Q== Sender: linux-man-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org On 09/08/20 00:18, Larry Dwyer via austin-group-l at The Open Group wrote: > How about the "control" side and the "terminal" side (of the paired > device files)? All good -- until abused partners ("coercive control") or people imminently expected to die, and their supporters, start a clamour. In fact I'll make sure only to cast my Algol68 types in future and never coerce them, just in case. I'll absolutely never add an 'e' to 'cast'. Leaving satire, if it was, aside, the problem with changing technical terms is that all the previous valid uses remain, so you need a glossary to explain that the new term replaces the old one, and thus documentation into the foreseeable future has to mention the old term as well. For instance, people who read the article that's the second G-hit on "pty tty" for me at would wonder what happened to the components described there. If the change is to avoid perceived offence, the _mention_ of the old term has to come with a disclaimer that it was a historical metaphor applied to technology and should not be construed as a reference to its original sense. Personally I would just say that instead and let the term lie. Or just re-spell, perhaps 'moster' (a place in Norway, strip-Jenga?) and 'slove' (a band, "did split"), since the original metaphor in this case doesn't seem to help understanding. As these are meaningless to almost everyone, they could stand for the originals in all the existing uses and people not in the know could use their existing internal spelling corrector, as with colour/color. /df =2D- London SW6 UK