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From: Laszlo Ersek <lersek@redhat.com>
To: Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@kernel.org>, linux-efi@vger.kernel.org
Cc: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, leif@nuviainc.com,
	pjones@redhat.com, mjg59@google.com, agraf@csgraf.de,
	ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org, xypron.glpk@gmx.de,
	daniel.kiper@oracle.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/2] arch-agnostic initrd loading method for EFI systems
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 10:22:44 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <cfb38b38-14f2-c61a-60a0-dfe14667b49c@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <fa3b3103-e77d-571d-71a4-604fa48368e6@redhat.com>

On 02/07/20 10:09, Laszlo Ersek wrote:
> On 02/06/20 15:03, Ard Biesheuvel wrote:
>> This series introduces an arch agnostic way of loading the initrd into
>> memory from the EFI stub. This addresses a number of shortcomings that
>> affect the current implementations that exist across architectures:
>>
>> - The initrd=<file> command line option can only load files that reside
>>   on the same file system that the kernel itself was loaded from, which
>>   requires the bootloader or firmware to expose that file system via the
>>   appropriate EFI protocol, which is not always feasible. From the kernel
>>   side, this protocol is problematic since it is incompatible with mixed
>>   mode on x86 (this is due to the fact that some of its methods have
>>   prototypes that are difficult to marshall)
>>
>> - The approach that is ordinarily taken by GRUB is to load the initrd into
>>   memory, and pass it to the kernel proper via the bootparams structure or
>>   via the device tree. This requires the boot loader to have an understanding
>>   of those structures, which are not always set in stone, and of the policies
>>   around where the initrd may be loaded into memory. In the ARM case, it
>>   requires GRUB to modify the hardware description provided by the firmware,
>>   given that the initrd base and offset in memory are passed via the same
>>   data structure. It also creates a time window where the initrd data sits
>>   in memory, and can potentially be corrupted before the kernel is booted.
>>
>> Considering that we will soon have new users of these interfaces (EFI for
>> kvmtool on ARM, RISC-V in u-boot, etc), it makes sense to add a generic
>> interface now, before having another wave of bespoke arch specific code
>> coming in.
>>
>> Another aspect to take into account is that support for UEFI secure boot
>> and measured boot is being taken into the upstream, and being able to
>> rely on the PE entry point for booting any architecture makes the GRUB
>> vs shim story much cleaner, as we should be able to rely on LoadImage
>> and StartImage on all architectures, while retaining the ability to
>> load initrds from anywhere.
>>
>> Note that these patches depend on a fair amount of cleanup work that I
>> am targetting for v5.7. Branch can be found at:
>> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ardb/linux.git/log/?h=efistub-unification2
>>
>> An implementation for ArmVirtQemu (OVMF for ARM aka AAVMF) can be found
>> at https://github.com/ardbiesheuvel/edk2/commits/linux-efi-generic.
>> The change is for ARM only, but the exact same code could be used on x86.
> 
> I like this ArmVirtQemu feature, but I think it should be implemented as
> an addition, rather than a replacement. Older kernels (older EFI stubs)
> will try to fetch the initrd from the same fs where grub loaded the
> kernel from (exactly as you describe in the blurb).
> 
> For example, virt-install's "--location" option "can recognize certain
> distribution trees and fetches a bootable kernel/initrd pair to launch
> the install". It would be nice to keep that working for older distros.
> 
> I think LoadFile[2] can co-exist with SimpleFs.
> 
> I also think that the "try SimpleFs first, fall back to LoadFile[2]
> second" requirement applies only to the UEFI boot manager, and not to
> the kernel's EFI stub. IOW in the new approach the kernel is free to
> ignore (abandon) the old approach for good.

... But that might not be good for compatibility with grub and/or the
platform firmware, from the kernel's own perspective, perhaps?...

Who is supposed to produce LoadFile2 with the new VenMedia devpath?

Thanks
Laszlo

>>
>> Cc: lersek@redhat.com
>> Cc: leif@nuviainc.com
>> Cc: pjones@redhat.com
>> Cc: mjg59@google.com
>> Cc: agraf@csgraf.de
>> Cc: ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org
>> Cc: xypron.glpk@gmx.de 
>> Cc: daniel.kiper@oracle.com
>>
>> Ard Biesheuvel (2):
>>   efi/libstub: add support for loading the initrd from a device path
>>   efi/libstub: take noinitrd cmdline argument into account for devpath
>>     initrd
>>
>>  drivers/firmware/efi/libstub/arm-stub.c       | 21 ++++--
>>  .../firmware/efi/libstub/efi-stub-helper.c    | 74 +++++++++++++++++++
>>  drivers/firmware/efi/libstub/efistub.h        | 13 ++++
>>  drivers/firmware/efi/libstub/x86-stub.c       | 51 ++++++++++---
>>  include/linux/efi.h                           |  1 +
>>  5 files changed, 146 insertions(+), 14 deletions(-)
>>
> 


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID
From: Laszlo Ersek <lersek@redhat.com>
To: Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@kernel.org>, linux-efi@vger.kernel.org
Cc: agraf@csgraf.de, xypron.glpk@gmx.de, daniel.kiper@oracle.com,
	ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org, mjg59@google.com, pjones@redhat.com,
	leif@nuviainc.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/2] arch-agnostic initrd loading method for EFI systems
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 10:22:44 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <cfb38b38-14f2-c61a-60a0-dfe14667b49c@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <fa3b3103-e77d-571d-71a4-604fa48368e6@redhat.com>

On 02/07/20 10:09, Laszlo Ersek wrote:
> On 02/06/20 15:03, Ard Biesheuvel wrote:
>> This series introduces an arch agnostic way of loading the initrd into
>> memory from the EFI stub. This addresses a number of shortcomings that
>> affect the current implementations that exist across architectures:
>>
>> - The initrd=<file> command line option can only load files that reside
>>   on the same file system that the kernel itself was loaded from, which
>>   requires the bootloader or firmware to expose that file system via the
>>   appropriate EFI protocol, which is not always feasible. From the kernel
>>   side, this protocol is problematic since it is incompatible with mixed
>>   mode on x86 (this is due to the fact that some of its methods have
>>   prototypes that are difficult to marshall)
>>
>> - The approach that is ordinarily taken by GRUB is to load the initrd into
>>   memory, and pass it to the kernel proper via the bootparams structure or
>>   via the device tree. This requires the boot loader to have an understanding
>>   of those structures, which are not always set in stone, and of the policies
>>   around where the initrd may be loaded into memory. In the ARM case, it
>>   requires GRUB to modify the hardware description provided by the firmware,
>>   given that the initrd base and offset in memory are passed via the same
>>   data structure. It also creates a time window where the initrd data sits
>>   in memory, and can potentially be corrupted before the kernel is booted.
>>
>> Considering that we will soon have new users of these interfaces (EFI for
>> kvmtool on ARM, RISC-V in u-boot, etc), it makes sense to add a generic
>> interface now, before having another wave of bespoke arch specific code
>> coming in.
>>
>> Another aspect to take into account is that support for UEFI secure boot
>> and measured boot is being taken into the upstream, and being able to
>> rely on the PE entry point for booting any architecture makes the GRUB
>> vs shim story much cleaner, as we should be able to rely on LoadImage
>> and StartImage on all architectures, while retaining the ability to
>> load initrds from anywhere.
>>
>> Note that these patches depend on a fair amount of cleanup work that I
>> am targetting for v5.7. Branch can be found at:
>> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ardb/linux.git/log/?h=efistub-unification2
>>
>> An implementation for ArmVirtQemu (OVMF for ARM aka AAVMF) can be found
>> at https://github.com/ardbiesheuvel/edk2/commits/linux-efi-generic.
>> The change is for ARM only, but the exact same code could be used on x86.
> 
> I like this ArmVirtQemu feature, but I think it should be implemented as
> an addition, rather than a replacement. Older kernels (older EFI stubs)
> will try to fetch the initrd from the same fs where grub loaded the
> kernel from (exactly as you describe in the blurb).
> 
> For example, virt-install's "--location" option "can recognize certain
> distribution trees and fetches a bootable kernel/initrd pair to launch
> the install". It would be nice to keep that working for older distros.
> 
> I think LoadFile[2] can co-exist with SimpleFs.
> 
> I also think that the "try SimpleFs first, fall back to LoadFile[2]
> second" requirement applies only to the UEFI boot manager, and not to
> the kernel's EFI stub. IOW in the new approach the kernel is free to
> ignore (abandon) the old approach for good.

... But that might not be good for compatibility with grub and/or the
platform firmware, from the kernel's own perspective, perhaps?...

Who is supposed to produce LoadFile2 with the new VenMedia devpath?

Thanks
Laszlo

>>
>> Cc: lersek@redhat.com
>> Cc: leif@nuviainc.com
>> Cc: pjones@redhat.com
>> Cc: mjg59@google.com
>> Cc: agraf@csgraf.de
>> Cc: ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org
>> Cc: xypron.glpk@gmx.de 
>> Cc: daniel.kiper@oracle.com
>>
>> Ard Biesheuvel (2):
>>   efi/libstub: add support for loading the initrd from a device path
>>   efi/libstub: take noinitrd cmdline argument into account for devpath
>>     initrd
>>
>>  drivers/firmware/efi/libstub/arm-stub.c       | 21 ++++--
>>  .../firmware/efi/libstub/efi-stub-helper.c    | 74 +++++++++++++++++++
>>  drivers/firmware/efi/libstub/efistub.h        | 13 ++++
>>  drivers/firmware/efi/libstub/x86-stub.c       | 51 ++++++++++---
>>  include/linux/efi.h                           |  1 +
>>  5 files changed, 146 insertions(+), 14 deletions(-)
>>
> 


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  reply	other threads:[~2020-02-07  9:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 77+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-02-06 14:03 Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 14:03 ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 14:03 ` [PATCH 1/2] efi/libstub: add support for loading the initrd from a device path Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 14:03   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 18:26   ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-06 18:26     ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-06 18:46     ` Ilias Apalodimas
2020-02-06 18:46       ` Ilias Apalodimas
2020-02-06 19:15       ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-06 19:15         ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-06 20:09         ` Ilias Apalodimas
2020-02-06 20:09           ` Ilias Apalodimas
2020-02-06 22:49           ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-06 22:49             ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07  7:35             ` Ilias Apalodimas
2020-02-07  7:35               ` Ilias Apalodimas
2020-02-06 22:35     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 22:35       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07  0:01       ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07  0:01         ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07  0:21         ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07  0:21           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07  0:57           ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07  0:57             ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07  8:12             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07  8:12               ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 13:30               ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07 13:30                 ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07 13:58                 ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 13:58                   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 14:18                   ` Alexander Graf
2020-02-07 14:18                     ` Alexander Graf
2020-02-07 15:30                     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 15:30                       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 15:35                     ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07 15:35                       ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-07 11:09       ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07 11:09         ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07 11:03     ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07 11:03       ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07  9:48   ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07  9:48     ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07 12:36     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 12:36       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-10 14:26       ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-10 14:26         ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-09  6:39   ` Lukas Wunner
2020-02-09 11:35     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-09 11:35       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 14:03 ` [PATCH 2/2] efi/libstub: take noinitrd cmdline argument into account for devpath initrd Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 14:03   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 18:33   ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-06 18:33     ` Heinrich Schuchardt
2020-02-06 23:44     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-06 23:44       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-12 16:01   ` Peter Jones
2020-02-12 16:01     ` Peter Jones
2020-02-07  9:09 ` [PATCH 0/2] arch-agnostic initrd loading method for EFI systems Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07  9:09   ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07  9:22   ` Laszlo Ersek [this message]
2020-02-07  9:22     ` Laszlo Ersek
2020-02-07 12:23     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 12:23       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 16:20       ` James Bottomley
2020-02-07 16:20         ` James Bottomley
2020-02-07 18:31         ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 18:31           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 19:54           ` James Bottomley
2020-02-07 19:54             ` James Bottomley
2020-02-07 20:03             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 20:03               ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 18:45 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-02-07 18:45   ` Arvind Sankar
2020-02-07 19:47   ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 19:47     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-02-07 20:26     ` Arvind Sankar
2020-02-07 20:26       ` Arvind Sankar

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