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From: Damien Le Moal <damien.lemoal@wdc.com>
To: "Matias Bjørling" <m@bjorling.me>, lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org
Cc: Linux FS Devel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-block@vger.kernel.org" <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [LSF/MM ATTEND] OCSSDs - SMR, Hierarchical Interface, and Vector I/Os
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 10:33:14 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <e1c0b8e0-da91-563a-5913-a9a0db613ab3@wdc.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <05204e9d-ed4d-f97a-88f0-41b5e008af43@bjorling.me>

Hello,

A long discussion on the list followed this initial topic proposal from
Matias. I think this is a worthy topic to discuss at LSF in order to
steer development of the zoned block device interface in the right
direction. Considering the relation and implication to ZBC/ZAC support,
I would like to attend LSF/MM to participate in this discussion.

Thank you.

Best regards.

On 1/3/17 06:06, Matias Bj�rling wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> The open-channel SSD subsystem is maturing, and drives are beginning to 
> become available on the market. The open-channel SSD interface is very 
> similar to the one exposed by SMR hard-drives. They both have a set of 
> chunks (zones) exposed, and zones are managed using open/close logic. 
> The main difference on open-channel SSDs is that it additionally exposes 
> multiple sets of zones through a hierarchical interface, which covers a 
> numbers levels (X channels, Y LUNs per channel, Z zones per LUN).
> 
> Given that the SMR interface is similar to OCSSDs interface, I like to 
> propose to discuss this at LSF/MM to align the efforts and make a clear 
> path forward:
> 
> 1. SMR Compatibility
> 
> Can the SMR host interface be adapted to Open-Channel SSDs? For example, 
> the interface may be exposed as a single-level set of zones, which 
> ignore the channel and lun concept for simplicity. Another approach 
> might be to extend the SMR implementation sysfs entries to expose the 
> hierarchy of the device (channels with X LUNs and each luns have a set 
> of zones).
> 
> 2. How to expose the tens of LUNs that OCSSDs have?
> 
> An open-channel SSDs typically has 64-256 LUNs that each acts as a 
> parallel unit. How can these be efficiently exposed?
> 
> One may expose these as separate namespaces/partitions. For a DAS with 
> 24 drives, that will be 1536-6144 separate LUNs to manage. That many 
> LUNs will blow up the host with gendisk instances. While if we do, then 
> we have an excellent 1:1 mapping between the SMR interface and the OCSSD 
> interface.
> 
> On the other hand, one could expose the device LUNs within a single LBA 
> address space and lay the LUNs out linearly. In that case, the block 
> layer may expose a variable that enables applications to understand this 
> hierarchy. Mainly the channels with LUNs. Any warm feelings towards this?
> 
> Currently, a shortcut is taken with the geometry and hierarchy, which 
> expose it through the /lightnvm sysfs entries. These (or a type thereof) 
> can be moved to the block layer /queue directory.
> 
> If keeping the LUNs exposed on the same gendisk, vector I/Os becomes a 
> viable path:
> 
> 3. Vector I/Os
> 
> To derive parallelism from an open-channel SSD (and SSDs in parallel), 
> one need to access them in parallel. Parallelism is achieved either by 
> issuing I/Os for each LUN (similar to driving multiple SSDs today) or 
> using a vector interface (encapsulating a list of LBAs, length, and data 
> buffer) into the kernel. The latter approach allows I/Os to be 
> vectorized and sent as a single unit to hardware.
> 
> Implementing this in generic block layer code might be overkill if only 
> open-channel SSDs use it. I like to hear other use-cases (e.g., 
> preadv/pwritev, file-systems, virtio?) that can take advantage of 
> vectored I/Os. If it makes sense, then which level to implement: 
> bio/request level, SGLs, or a new structure?
> 
> Device drivers that support vectored I/Os should be able to opt into the 
> interface, while the block layer may automatically roll out for device 
> drivers that don't have the support.
> 
> What has the history been in the Linux kernel about vector I/Os? What 
> have reasons in the past been that such an interface was not adopted?
> 
> I will post RFC SMR patches before LSF/MM, such that we have a firm 
> ground to discuss how it may be integrated.
> 
> -- Besides OCSSDs, I also like to participate in the discussions of 
> XCOPY, NVMe, multipath, multi-queue interrupt management as well.
> 
> -Matias
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-nvme mailing list
> Linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org
> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-nvme
> 

-- 
Damien Le Moal, Ph.D.
Sr. Manager, System Software Research Group,
Western Digital Corporation
Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com
(+81) 0466-98-3593 (ext. 513593)
1 kirihara-cho, Fujisawa,
Kanagawa, 252-0888 Japan
www.wdc.com, www.hgst.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-01-12  1:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 65+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-01-02 21:06 [LSF/MM TOPIC][LSF/MM ATTEND] OCSSDs - SMR, Hierarchical Interface, and Vector I/Os Matias Bjørling
2017-01-02 21:06 ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-02 21:06 ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-02 23:12 ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-02 23:12   ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-02 23:12   ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-03  8:56   ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-03  8:56     ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-03 17:35     ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-03 17:35       ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-03 17:35       ` Viacheslav Dubeyko
2017-01-03 19:10       ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-03 19:10         ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-04  2:59         ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-04  2:59           ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-04  2:59           ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-04  7:24           ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-04  7:24             ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-04 12:39             ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-04 12:39               ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-04 16:57             ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-04 16:57               ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-10  1:42               ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-10  1:42                 ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-10  4:24                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-10  4:24                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-10 13:06                   ` Matias Bjorling
2017-01-10 13:06                     ` Matias Bjorling
2017-01-11  4:07                     ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-11  4:07                       ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-11  6:06                       ` Matias Bjorling
2017-01-11  6:06                         ` Matias Bjorling
2017-01-11  7:49                       ` Hannes Reinecke
2017-01-11  7:49                         ` Hannes Reinecke
2017-01-05 22:58             ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-05 22:58               ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-05 22:58               ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-06  1:11               ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-06  1:11                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-06 12:51                 ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-06 12:51                   ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-06 12:51                   ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-09  6:49                 ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-09  6:49                   ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-09  6:49                   ` Slava Dubeyko
2017-01-09 14:55                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-09 14:55                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-09 14:55                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-01-06 13:05               ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-06 13:05                 ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-06 13:05                 ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-06  1:09             ` Jaegeuk Kim
2017-01-06  1:09               ` Jaegeuk Kim
2017-01-06 12:55               ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-06 12:55                 ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-06 12:55                 ` Matias Bjørling
2017-01-12  1:33 ` Damien Le Moal [this message]
2017-01-12  2:18   ` [Lsf-pc] [LSF/MM " James Bottomley
2017-01-12  2:18     ` James Bottomley
2017-01-12  2:35     ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-12  2:35       ` Damien Le Moal
2017-01-12  2:38       ` James Bottomley
2017-01-12  2:38         ` James Bottomley
2017-01-12  2:37 Damien Le Moal
2017-01-12  2:37 ` Damien Le Moal

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