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From: Krzysztof Halasa <khc@pm.waw.pl>
To: Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>
Cc: Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	torvalds@osdl.org, hch@infradead.org, dwmw2@infradead.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, libc-alpha@sources.redhat.com
Subject: Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:12:38 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m31xef5kzt.fsf@defiant.pm.waw.pl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ory8goygpr.fsf@livre.redhat.lsd.ic.unicamp.br> (Alexandre Oliva's message of "26 Nov 2004 09:47:44 -0200")

Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com> writes:

> How about moving the internals (i.e., what's not to be exported to
> userland) from linux and asm elsewhere, then?

That's what I proposed several {months,weeks} ago. From a technical
point of view it seems like a superior solution:

- /usr/include/{linux,asm} -> /usr/src/linux/include/{linux,asm} = no
  problems with kernel and userspace includes.
- while Linux is quite a big program, it is _one_ program = no need to
  patch the whole universe, only the kernel would need changing
  (of course broken userspace code would need fixing, but that's
  due to their brokeness and not due to the change).

> Sure, it means significantly more churn in the kernel, but there's
> going to be a lot of moving stuff around one way or the other.

No doubt. Still, quite simple automatic operation, we've seen much larger
patches.

API backward-compatibility (including C libs) is IMHO much more
important than just some kernel patch size (I realize ABI compatibility
would be preserved in all cases).

And we can do it anytime - no need for waiting for some libc change,
no need for waiting for "2.7/2.8".

> While at that, we could also split what's kernel internal for real and
> what's to be visible to external kernel modules as well.

Can't see benefits.
-- 
Krzysztof Halasa

  parent reply	other threads:[~2004-11-27 17:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2004-11-25 15:13 [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ David Howells
2004-11-25 15:23 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-25 16:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 18:17   ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27  3:24     ` Greg KH
2004-11-28 23:37       ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29  1:28         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29  4:36           ` Jeff Garzik
2004-11-29  4:57             ` Al Viro
2004-11-29  5:27               ` Tim Hockin
2004-11-29  7:51             ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-05  0:49             ` Rob Landley
2004-12-05  2:26               ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 13:19                 ` David Greaves
2004-12-05 15:57                   ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 23:05                     ` Rob Landley
2004-12-06  9:56                       ` Andries Brouwer
2004-11-29  9:42           ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30  8:08             ` Alex Riesen
2004-11-30  8:57               ` Alex Riesen
2004-12-01 11:46             ` Ralf Baechle
2004-12-02  1:21               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-29  9:53           ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29  9:57             ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-29 10:01               ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-29 11:41           ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-29 17:09           ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-29 17:41             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29 22:44               ` Al Viro
2004-12-01 11:36                 ` Roman Zippel
     [not found]               ` <oract0thnj.fsf@livre.redhat.lsd.ic.unicamp.br>
2004-11-29 23:00                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30  0:45                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30  5:31                   ` Herbert Poetzl
2004-11-30  6:44                   ` bert hubert
2004-11-30 21:22                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 22:22                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:57                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:12                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 19:41                           ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-12-01 19:54                             ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-12-02  3:58                             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02  4:28                               ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-12-02  5:11                                 ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02 11:30                                   ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-12-02 22:17                                     ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02  9:29                               ` Pekka Enberg
2004-12-02 15:35                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02 21:46                                   ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-30 15:35               ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 15:58                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 16:28                   ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 16:53                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 17:52                       ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 18:21                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:28                           ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 20:47                             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:33                               ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 22:44                                 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:03                                   ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 23:08                                     ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01  5:23                                       ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-01 10:52                                         ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01 18:08                                           ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 23:13                                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:36                                     ` Chris Friesen
2004-12-01  5:50                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 22:48                           ` Matt Mackall
2004-11-30 22:51                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-30 23:09                               ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-30 23:35                                 ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-01  0:23                                 ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2004-11-30 22:55                             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:29                               ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-03  1:03                                 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-11-30 23:51                               ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 17:55                       ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 16:33                 ` David Howells
2004-11-30 16:57                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 15:33             ` David Howells
2004-11-30 15:51               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:47                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 20:56                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 21:30                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 21:39                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:33                         ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:25                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:34                         ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 22:51                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:50                             ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  0:10                               ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  0:18                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  8:10                                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-01  0:24                                 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  0:37                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  0:47                                     ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  0:57                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  1:06                                         ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01  1:23                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01  6:48                                           ` BAIN
2004-12-01  2:02                               ` cdrom.h (was Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers...) Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:52                         ` [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:05                           ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:05                         ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 16:18               ` David Howells
2004-12-14  5:51           ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 15:49             ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:50               ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 17:58                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 21:46                   ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 21:58                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 23:49                     ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-15  0:09                       ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-16  0:58                         ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-14 19:23                 ` Horst von Brand
2004-12-14 19:45                   ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-14 19:58                     ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 20:25                       ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 20:33                         ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:55               ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 17:59                 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-27 20:39   ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-25 18:20 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 21:01   ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 22:35     ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:42       ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-27  0:13       ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27  0:26         ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27  0:30           ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27  0:38             ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:47     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-26 11:53       ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 16:12       ` Krzysztof Halasa [this message]
2004-11-26 11:58   ` David Howells
2004-11-26 12:00     ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 14:19       ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 14:33         ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 12:10           ` Alexander Stohr
2004-11-27  3:46         ` Adam Heath
2004-11-30 12:18         ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-29 16:34     ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 18:45 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 11:52 ` David Howells
2004-11-26 23:56 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27  1:27   ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27  1:41     ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27  2:03       ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27  3:07 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-27  4:29 ` Tonnerre
2004-11-27  3:51   ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-27 16:47     ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 17:16       ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 22:53         ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-27 23:12           ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:27           ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 23:32             ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:56               ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28  7:13           ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 12:03             ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 12:19               ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:34                 ` Kevin Puetz
2004-11-28 12:28               ` Wichert Akkerman
2004-11-28 12:44                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:21             ` Jakub Jelinek
2004-11-28  7:20           ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-27  4:05   ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-27  4:30   ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 21:03 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:11   ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 21:19     ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:49       ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 23:21         ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 13:24           ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-28 13:40             ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-29 11:08 ` David Howells
2004-11-29 20:01 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30  0:34   ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-30  0:51     ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-12-14  7:07   ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-27 19:43 Dan Kegel
2004-11-27 21:06 ` Sam Ravnborg
     [not found] <34Xo6-2P0-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <35i9f-2vZ-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <35iLS-2Uo-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <35kb6-46Q-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2004-11-28  0:55       ` ak
2004-11-28 13:32         ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-30  1:43 Jean Tourrilhes
2004-11-30  4:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30  6:51   ` H. Peter Anvin

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