From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBF8C433F5 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:35:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from phobos.denx.de (phobos.denx.de [85.214.62.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA50A60F70 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:35:03 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 mail.kernel.org EA50A60F70 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=dabbelt.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lists.denx.de Received: from h2850616.stratoserver.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by phobos.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB25180397; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:35:00 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=dabbelt.com Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=dabbelt-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@dabbelt-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="EeNgh6uI"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by phobos.denx.de (Postfix, from userid 109) id EA39780C58; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:34:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1029.google.com (mail-pj1-x1029.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by phobos.denx.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95E398022E for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:34:54 +0200 (CEST) Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=dabbelt.com Authentication-Results: phobos.denx.de; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=palmer@dabbelt.com Received: by mail-pj1-x1029.google.com with SMTP id lb1-20020a17090b4a4100b001993f863df2so3524756pjb.5 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dabbelt-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=date:subject:in-reply-to:cc:from:to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mg9oslISXemNp0lW0mNCM+xtGCXhZ1w4ANpDRfUjljo=; b=EeNgh6uIEiZ/SVkpw2Qkbd9ztFNbch8UOzd4qIWZVOJrZqXKSqN3FOaZYt6zT6bbdE 48ZLHGEW4HesUdqISQ8VmQnDQ6F/sgfDJTtJkn3ENQMDH2VbquNGGbJ17vRBS0SZX35D Bgi2ucr6k/XOC0ahZGmD+8rbCWyZycWfHX4m5XyT9yQ0ZVKEWqVaSCRTO3+Oxz3TRUG6 LF9gOK0rqm4dgmey4M1vCRDoY8HIRjGoNWCY/pRh5oahAdRuHe++jShqWbRcw3TmV/pd aVcUEFSVkEr86IaoEf8OpWeImRFK/gxJ59LAmIljlEfEuUtpaJO9Fyz43WgWnYHlwP23 pldA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:date:subject:in-reply-to:cc:from:to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mg9oslISXemNp0lW0mNCM+xtGCXhZ1w4ANpDRfUjljo=; b=QgtHhpELvLDYUCxfTMyU8My5HjCXvBwkgZveYvRBWOkAQJ2yamufv25tLDbERbjcG4 20WREt/tusC4WkwaTtGufdLivwA+BLvE5ay6wkJdYoTGMlNTmeX4LPdRN3t7T4ksWJWw bq+4/nyFmRb+iW5AkUrTLOe0lg2crt4rERBAluIVvwSxQFcxdmhoyMxRpQcEZEOB/aL8 TnpsGhKwg3BZVI6/OEpeNRxUMlz05k2mQKcRmNfnPzIgjBC81W5WoS87gY+AwRcj9U/Q UQta9nb8qQ/askNFt/sjdnxS9pAIIHMhgH1CzMca2d/Pejii9Qvq+tYsgG2iWgriwphK +KQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5322IwsDS/aWWckNVKXvkyo73WbZyMK8am60tolgzynT26rhcMDx 5GoAkeQnvnU14N/+hZK8ssudOg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJww+HQf7d3DHNbWW+F1PP3BJKgpqnsbGWwaNFL/lt4xo1+sj5XudaK7304hnBHTsLCvo1Z8jA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:4a03:: with SMTP id e3mr1466648pjh.198.1632854092595; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (76-210-143-223.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [76.210.143.223]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i8sm21327344pfq.22.2021.09.28.11.34.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:48 PDT (-0700) Subject: Re: Status of the various RISC-V specification and policy In-Reply-To: <63E6E860-22F0-457D-B17B-3B6625BA4A99@riscv.org> CC: atishp@atishpatra.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, u-boot@lists.denx.de, ahs3@redhat.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, Christoph Hellwig , drjones@redhat.com, xypron.glpk@gmx.de, tekkamanninja@gmail.com, Paul Walmsley , ksankaran@ventanamicro.com, ptomsich@ventanamicro.com, anup@brainfault.org, stephano@riscv.org From: Palmer Dabbelt To: markhimelstein@riscv.org Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (MHng) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: u-boot@lists.denx.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: U-Boot discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: u-boot-bounces@lists.denx.de Sender: "U-Boot" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.2 at phobos.denx.de X-Virus-Status: Clean On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 08:57:15 PDT (-0700), markhimelstein@riscv.org wrote: > the words in this document : > > https://wiki.riscv.org/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=13098230#content/view/13098230 > > make it very clear when changes are allowed or not and likely or not. > > if you think the verbiage is somehow ambiguous please help us make it better. I'm not really worried about changes, I'm worried about a committment to future compatibility. When we take code into the kernel (and most other core systems projects) we're taking on the burden of supporting (until someone can prove there are no more users), which is very difficult to do when the ISA changes in an incompatible fashion. The whole point of agreeing on the frozen thing was that it gave us a committment from the specifcation authors that the future ISA would be compatible with th frozen extensions. We're already in this spot with the V extension and the whole stable thing, this definitaion of frozen looks very much like what was has led to the issues there. Saying the spec won't change really isn't meaningful, it's saying future specs will be compatible that's important. Nothing in this whole rule touches on compatibility, and I really don't want to end up in a bigger mess than we're already in. (Also: some PGE subcontractor drove a crane into my house, so things are a bit chaotic on my end. If you have that list of what's officially frozen, can you send it out? I'll try to take a look ASAP, as then I can at least focus the discussion on what's relevant right now.) > > Mark > -------- > sent from a mobile device. please forgive any typos. > >> On Sep 27, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Palmer Dabbelt wrote: >> >> On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:20:17 PDT (-0700), atishp@atishpatra.org wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> Please find the below email from Stephano about the freeze announcement for >>> various RISC-V specifications that will be part of privilege specification >>> v1.12. >>> All the review discussions are happening in the isa-dev mailing list. The >>> review period will be open for 45 days ending Sunday October 31, 2021. >>> >>> I just want to highlight the fact that the *H*, *V, SvPBMT, CMO extensions >>> are frozen now. *This will help us merge some patches that have been >>> present in the mailing list for a while. >>> >>> Here are the ratification policy and extension life cycle documents present >>> in the public. If you have any questions regarding this, please check with >>> Mark/Stephano (cc'd). >>> >>> Ratification policy: >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-UlaSGqk59_myeuPMrV9gyuaIgnmFzGh5Gfy_tpViwM/edit >>> >>> Extension life cycle: >>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nQ5uFb39KA6gvUi5SReWfIQSiRN7hp6z7ZPfctE4mKk/edit#slide=id.p1 >> >> I'm still buried after Plumbers, but one of the bits on my TODO list was to look throught the new definitions for frozen and stable. Nothing in this extension life cycle talks about the point at which compatibility will be maintained, which was really the central point behind frozen before. >> >> Are there more concrete definitions somewhere? 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[76.210.143.223]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i8sm21327344pfq.22.2021.09.28.11.34.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:34:48 PDT (-0700) Subject: Re: Status of the various RISC-V specification and policy In-Reply-To: <63E6E860-22F0-457D-B17B-3B6625BA4A99@riscv.org> CC: atishp@atishpatra.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, u-boot@lists.denx.de, ahs3@redhat.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, Christoph Hellwig , drjones@redhat.com, xypron.glpk@gmx.de, tekkamanninja@gmail.com, Paul Walmsley , ksankaran@ventanamicro.com, ptomsich@ventanamicro.com, anup@brainfault.org, stephano@riscv.org From: Palmer Dabbelt To: markhimelstein@riscv.org Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (MHng) X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210928_113454_490440_D037DF9B X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 23.41 ) X-BeenThere: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: "linux-riscv" Errors-To: linux-riscv-bounces+linux-riscv=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org T24gTW9uLCAyNyBTZXAgMjAyMSAwODo1NzoxNSBQRFQgKC0wNzAwKSwgbWFya2hpbWVsc3RlaW5A cmlzY3Yub3JnIHdyb3RlOgo+IHRoZSB3b3JkcyBpbiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IDogCj4KPiBodHRw czovL3dpa2kucmlzY3Yub3JnL3BsdWdpbnMvc2VydmxldC9tb2JpbGU/Y29udGVudElkPTEzMDk4 MjMwI2NvbnRlbnQvdmlldy8xMzA5ODIzMAo+Cj4gbWFrZSBpdCB2ZXJ5IGNsZWFyIHdoZW4gY2hh bmdlcyBhcmUgYWxsb3dlZCBvciBub3QgYW5kIGxpa2VseSBvciBub3QuCj4KPiBpZiB5b3UgdGhp bmsgdGhlIHZlcmJpYWdlIGlzIHNvbWVob3cgYW1iaWd1b3VzIHBsZWFzZSBoZWxwIHVzIG1ha2Ug aXQgYmV0dGVyLgoKSSdtIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgd29ycmllZCBhYm91dCBjaGFuZ2VzLCBJJ20gd29y cmllZCBhYm91dCBhIGNvbW1pdHRtZW50IHRvIApmdXR1cmUgY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0eS4gIFdoZW4g d2UgdGFrZSBjb2RlIGludG8gdGhlIGtlcm5lbCAoYW5kIG1vc3Qgb3RoZXIgCmNvcmUgc3lzdGVt cyBwcm9qZWN0cykgd2UncmUgdGFraW5nIG9uIHRoZSBidXJkZW4gb2Ygc3VwcG9ydGluZyAodW50 aWwgCnNvbWVvbmUgY2FuIHByb3ZlIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBubyBtb3JlIHVzZXJzKSwgd2hpY2ggaXMg dmVyeSBkaWZmaWN1bHQgdG8gCmRvIHdoZW4gdGhlIElTQSBjaGFuZ2VzIGluIGFuIGluY29tcGF0 aWJsZSBmYXNoaW9uLiAgVGhlIHdob2xlIHBvaW50IG9mIAphZ3JlZWluZyBvbiB0aGUgZnJvemVu IHRoaW5nIHdhcyB0aGF0IGl0IGdhdmUgdXMgYSBjb21taXR0bWVudCBmcm9tIHRoZSAKc3BlY2lm Y2F0aW9uIGF1dGhvcnMgdGhhdCB0aGUgZnV0dXJlIElTQSB3b3VsZCBiZSBjb21wYXRpYmxlIHdp dGggdGggCmZyb3plbiBleHRlbnNpb25zLgoKV2UncmUgYWxyZWFkeSBpbiB0aGlzIHNwb3Qgd2l0 aCB0aGUgViBleHRlbnNpb24gYW5kIHRoZSB3aG9sZSBzdGFibGUgCnRoaW5nLCB0aGlzIGRlZmlu aXRhaW9uIG9mIGZyb3plbiBsb29rcyB2ZXJ5IG11Y2ggbGlrZSB3aGF0IHdhcyBoYXMgbGVkIAp0 byB0aGUgaXNzdWVzIHRoZXJlLiAgU2F5aW5nIHRoZSBzcGVjIHdvbid0IGNoYW5nZSByZWFsbHkg aXNuJ3QgCm1lYW5pbmdmdWwsIGl0J3Mgc2F5aW5nIGZ1dHVyZSBzcGVjcyB3aWxsIGJlIGNvbXBh dGlibGUgdGhhdCdzIAppbXBvcnRhbnQuICBOb3RoaW5nIGluIHRoaXMgd2hvbGUgcnVsZSB0b3Vj aGVzIG9uIGNvbXBhdGliaWxpdHksIGFuZCBJIApyZWFsbHkgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0byBlbmQgdXAg aW4gYSBiaWdnZXIgbWVzcyB0aGFuIHdlJ3JlIGFscmVhZHkgaW4uCgooQWxzbzogc29tZSBQR0Ug c3ViY29udHJhY3RvciBkcm92ZSBhIGNyYW5lIGludG8gbXkgaG91c2UsIHNvIHRoaW5ncyBhcmUg CmEgYml0IGNoYW90aWMgb24gbXkgZW5kLiAgSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgdGhhdCBsaXN0IG9mIHdoYXQn cyBvZmZpY2lhbGx5IApmcm96ZW4sIGNhbiB5b3Ugc2VuZCBpdCBvdXQ/ICBJJ2xsIHRyeSB0byB0 YWtlIGEgbG9vayBBU0FQLCBhcyB0aGVuIEkgCmNhbiBhdCBsZWFzdCBmb2N1cyB0aGUgZGlzY3Vz c2lvbiBvbiB3aGF0J3MgcmVsZXZhbnQgcmlnaHQgbm93LikKCj4KPiBNYXJrCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0K PiBzZW50IGZyb20gYSBtb2JpbGUgZGV2aWNlLiBwbGVhc2UgZm9yZ2l2ZSBhbnkgdHlwb3MuCj4K Pj4gT24gU2VwIDI3LCAyMDIxLCBhdCA4OjUwIEFNLCBQYWxtZXIgRGFiYmVsdCA8cGFsbWVyQGRh YmJlbHQuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPj4gCj4+IO+7v09uIFR1ZSwgMjEgU2VwIDIwMjEgMTc6MjA6MTcg UERUICgtMDcwMCksIGF0aXNocEBhdGlzaHBhdHJhLm9yZyB3cm90ZToKPj4+IEhpIEFsbCwKPj4+ IFBsZWFzZSBmaW5kIHRoZSBiZWxvdyBlbWFpbCBmcm9tIFN0ZXBoYW5vIGFib3V0IHRoZSBmcmVl emUgYW5ub3VuY2VtZW50IGZvcgo+Pj4gdmFyaW91cyBSSVNDLVYgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgdGhh dCB3aWxsIGJlIHBhcnQgb2YgcHJpdmlsZWdlIHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24KPj4+IHYxLjEyLgo+Pj4g QWxsIHRoZSByZXZpZXcgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgYXJlIGhhcHBlbmluZyBpbiB0aGUgaXNhLWRldiBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuIFRoZQo+Pj4gcmV2aWV3IHBlcmlvZCB3aWxsIGJlIG9wZW4gZm9yIDQ1IGRh eXMgZW5kaW5nIFN1bmRheSBPY3RvYmVyIDMxLCAyMDIxLgo+Pj4gCj4+PiBJIGp1c3Qgd2FudCB0 byBoaWdobGlnaHQgdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCB0aGUgKkgqLCAqViwgU3ZQQk1ULCBDTU8gZXh0ZW5z aW9ucwo+Pj4gYXJlIGZyb3plbiBub3cuICpUaGlzIHdpbGwgaGVscCB1cyBtZXJnZSBzb21lIHBh dGNoZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4KPj4+IHByZXNlbnQgaW4gdGhlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBmb3Ig YSB3aGlsZS4KPj4+IAo+Pj4gSGVyZSBhcmUgdGhlIHJhdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBwb2xpY3kgYW5kIGV4 dGVuc2lvbiBsaWZlIGN5Y2xlIGRvY3VtZW50cyBwcmVzZW50Cj4+PiBpbiB0aGUgcHVibGljLiBJ ZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhbnkgcXVlc3Rpb25zIHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGlzLCBwbGVhc2UgY2hlY2sgd2l0 aAo+Pj4gTWFyay9TdGVwaGFubyAoY2MnZCkuCj4+PiAKPj4+IFJhdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBwb2xpY3k6 Cj4+PiBodHRwczovL2RvY3MuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS9kb2N1bWVudC9kLzEtVWxhU0dxazU5X215ZXVQ TXJWOWd5dWFJZ25tRnpHaDVHZnlfdHBWaXdNL2VkaXQKPj4+IAo+Pj4gRXh0ZW5zaW9uIGxpZmUg Y3ljbGU6Cj4+PiBodHRwczovL2RvY3MuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS9wcmVzZW50YXRpb24vZC8xblE1dUZi MzlLQTZndlVpNVNSZVdmSVFTaVJON2hwNno3WlBmY3RFNG1Lay9lZGl0I3NsaWRlPWlkLnAxCj4+ IAo+PiBJJ20gc3RpbGwgYnVyaWVkIGFmdGVyIFBsdW1iZXJzLCBidXQgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBiaXRz IG9uIG15IFRPRE8gbGlzdCB3YXMgdG8gbG9vayB0aHJvdWdodCB0aGUgbmV3IGRlZmluaXRpb25z IGZvciBmcm96ZW4gYW5kIHN0YWJsZS4gIE5vdGhpbmcgaW4gdGhpcyBleHRlbnNpb24gbGlmZSBj eWNsZSB0YWxrcyBhYm91dCB0aGUgcG9pbnQgYXQgd2hpY2ggY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0eSB3aWxsIGJl IG1haW50YWluZWQsIHdoaWNoIHdhcyByZWFsbHkgdGhlIGNlbnRyYWwgcG9pbnQgYmVoaW5kIGZy b3plbiBiZWZvcmUuCj4+IAo+PiBBcmUgdGhlcmUgbW9yZSBjb25jcmV0ZSBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBz b21ld2hlcmU/CgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f XwpsaW51eC1yaXNjdiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbGludXgtcmlzY3ZAbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9y ZwpodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xpbnV4LXJpc2N2 Cg==