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From: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
To: "Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget" <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>
Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, Neeraj-Personal <nksingh85@gmail.com>,
	"Johannes Schindelin" <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>,
	"Jeff King" <peff@peff.net>,
	"Jeff Hostetler" <jeffhost@microsoft.com>,
	"Christoph Hellwig" <hch@lst.de>,
	"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>,
	"Randall S. Becker" <rsbecker@nexbridge.com>,
	"Neeraj K. Singh" <neerajsi@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 6/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: enable batch mode for testing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2021 09:21:19 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <xmqqtuilyfls.fsf@gitster.g> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <55a40fc8fd59df6180c8a87d93fcc9a232ff8d0a.1631590725.git.gitgitgadget@gmail.com> (Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget's message of "Tue, 14 Sep 2021 03:38:45 +0000")

"Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget" <gitgitgadget@gmail.com> writes:

> From: Neeraj Singh <neerajsi@microsoft.com>
>
> Signed-off-by: Neeraj Singh <neerajsi@microsoft.com>
> ---
>  environment.c | 2 +-
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
>
> diff --git a/environment.c b/environment.c
> index 3e23eafff80..27d5e11267e 100644
> --- a/environment.c
> +++ b/environment.c
> @@ -43,7 +43,7 @@ const char *git_hooks_path;
>  int zlib_compression_level = Z_BEST_SPEED;
>  int core_compression_level;
>  int pack_compression_level = Z_DEFAULT_COMPRESSION;
> -enum FSYNC_OBJECT_FILES_MODE fsync_object_files;
> +enum FSYNC_OBJECT_FILES_MODE fsync_object_files = FSYNC_OBJECT_FILES_BATCH;
>  size_t packed_git_window_size = DEFAULT_PACKED_GIT_WINDOW_SIZE;
>  size_t packed_git_limit = DEFAULT_PACKED_GIT_LIMIT;
>  size_t delta_base_cache_limit = 96 * 1024 * 1024;

Despite what the title of the change claims, this is not "enable for
testing", but "enable for everybody even in production", isn't it?

I'd prefer we do not do this, certainly not for "testing".

If setting the variable to "batch" were meant to eventually improve
performance for all different flavours of workload, I do not think
we would mind if we set it to "batch" for those who opt into the
"experimental" set of features by setting the feature.experimental
configuration variable to true.  And after a few development cycles
when the feature proves to be useful for everybody, we may want to
apply this patch under a justification that is different from "for
testing".

On the other hand, if this is meant to help 85% of people while
degrading the remainder of workflow, I do not think we would want to
see this change without a warning that says something along the
lines of "under rare circumstances (e.g. if you employ such and such
workflow), the new default value used for the core.fsyncObjectFiles
configuration variable will hurt performance."

Since this is about answering the question "between performance and
crash resilience, where do you as an end user strike the balance for
your needs?", I do not think it falls into either of the above two
categories.  

The only plausible justification I can think of to apply a "we
default to 'batch' for everybody" patch with is something like:

    Now with the 'batch' setting for core.fsyncObjectFiles, unlike
    'true' that paid very high overhead, the overhead to ensure our
    writes hit the disk platters has so greatly been reduced that it
    hurts the performance only negligibly.  Let's switch the default
    from the unsafe value of 'false' to safer and performant value
    of 'batch'.

I however doubt with the current round of patches, we are there yet.

  reply	other threads:[~2021-09-15 16:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 160+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-25  1:51 [PATCH 0/2] [RFC] Implement a bulk-checkin option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-25  1:51 ` [PATCH 1/2] object-file: use futimes rather than utime Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-25 13:51   ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-08-25 22:08     ` Neeraj Singh
2021-08-25  1:51 ` [PATCH 2/2] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batch disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-25  5:38   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-25 17:40     ` Neeraj Singh
2021-08-26  5:54       ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-25 16:11   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-08-26  0:49     ` Neeraj Singh
2021-08-26  5:50       ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-28  0:20         ` Neeraj Singh
2021-08-28  6:57           ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-31 19:59             ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-01  5:09               ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-26  5:57     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-08-25 18:52   ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-08-25 21:26     ` Junio C Hamano
2021-08-26  1:19     ` Neeraj Singh
2021-08-25 16:58 ` [PATCH 0/2] [RFC] Implement a bulk-checkin option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj Singh
2021-08-27 23:49 ` [PATCH v2 0/6] Implement a batched fsync " Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-27 23:49   ` [PATCH v2 1/6] object-file: use futimens rather than utime Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-27 23:49   ` [PATCH v2 2/6] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-27 23:49   ` [PATCH v2 3/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-27 23:49   ` [PATCH v2 4/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: add windows support for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-27 23:49   ` [PATCH v2 5/6] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-08-27 23:49   ` [PATCH v2 6/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-07 19:44   ` [PATCH v2 0/6] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj Singh
2021-09-07 19:50     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-07 19:54     ` Randall S. Becker
2021-09-08  0:54       ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-08  1:22         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-08 14:04           ` Randall S. Becker
2021-09-08 19:01           ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-08  0:55     ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-08  6:44       ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-08  6:49         ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-09-08 13:57           ` Randall S. Becker
2021-09-08 14:13             ` 'Christoph Hellwig'
2021-09-08 14:25               ` Randall S. Becker
2021-09-08 16:34         ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-08 19:12           ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-08 19:20             ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-08 19:23           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-14  3:38   ` [PATCH v3 " Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-14  3:38     ` [PATCH v3 1/6] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-14  3:38     ` [PATCH v3 2/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-14 10:39       ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-09-14 19:05         ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-14 19:34       ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-14 20:33         ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-15  4:55         ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-14  3:38     ` [PATCH v3 3/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: add windows support for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-14  3:38     ` [PATCH v3 4/6] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-14 19:35       ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-14  3:38     ` [PATCH v3 5/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-14  3:38     ` [PATCH v3 6/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: enable batch mode for testing Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-15 16:21       ` Junio C Hamano [this message]
2021-09-15 22:43         ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-15 23:12           ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-16  6:19             ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-14  5:49     ` [PATCH v3 0/6] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Christoph Hellwig
2021-09-20 22:15     ` [PATCH v4 " Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-20 22:15       ` [PATCH v4 1/6] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-20 22:15       ` [PATCH v4 2/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-21 23:16         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-22  1:23           ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-22  2:02             ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-22 19:46             ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-20 22:15       ` [PATCH v4 3/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: add windows support for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-21 23:42         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-22  1:23           ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-20 22:15       ` [PATCH v4 4/6] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-21 23:46         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-22  1:27           ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-23 22:32             ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-20 22:15       ` [PATCH v4 5/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: tests for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-21 23:54         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-22  1:30           ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-22  1:58             ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-22 17:55               ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-22 20:01                 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-09-20 22:15       ` [PATCH v4 6/6] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 20:12       ` [PATCH v5 0/7] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 20:12         ` [PATCH v5 1/7] object-file.c: do not rename in a temp odb Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 20:12         ` [PATCH v5 2/7] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 20:12         ` [PATCH v5 3/7] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 21:47           ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-24 20:12         ` [PATCH v5 4/7] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 21:49           ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-24 20:12         ` [PATCH v5 5/7] unpack-objects: " Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 20:12         ` [PATCH v5 6/7] core.fsyncobjectfiles: tests for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 20:12         ` [PATCH v5 7/7] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 23:31         ` [PATCH v5 0/7] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj Singh
2021-09-24 23:53         ` [PATCH v6 0/8] " Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 1/8] object-file.c: do not rename in a temp odb Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 2/8] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 3/8] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-25  3:15             ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-09-27  0:27               ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 4/8] core.fsyncobjectfiles: add windows support for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-27 20:07             ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-27 20:55               ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-27 21:03                 ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-27 23:53                   ` Junio C Hamano
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 5/8] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 6/8] unpack-objects: " Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 7/8] core.fsyncobjectfiles: tests for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-24 23:53           ` [PATCH v6 8/8] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32           ` [PATCH v7 0/9] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 1/9] object-file.c: do not rename in a temp odb Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:55               ` Jeff King
2021-09-29  0:10                 ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 2/9] tmp-objdir: new API for creating temporary writable databases Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-29  8:41               ` Elijah Newren
2021-09-29 16:40                 ` Neeraj Singh
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 3/9] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 4/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 5/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: add windows support for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 6/9] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 7/9] unpack-objects: " Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 8/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: tests for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-09-28 23:32             ` [PATCH v7 9/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57             ` [PATCH v8 0/9] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 1/9] tmp-objdir: new API for creating temporary writable databases Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 2/9] tmp-objdir: disable ref updates when replacing the primary odb Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 3/9] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 4/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 5/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: add windows support for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 6/9] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 7/9] unpack-objects: " Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 8/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: tests for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-10-04 16:57               ` [PATCH v8 9/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:50               ` [PATCH v9 0/9] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Neeraj K. Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:50                 ` [PATCH v9 1/9] tmp-objdir: new API for creating temporary writable databases Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-30 21:27                   ` Elijah Newren
2021-11-30 21:52                     ` Neeraj Singh
2021-11-30 22:36                       ` Elijah Newren
2021-11-15 23:50                 ` [PATCH v9 2/9] tmp-objdir: disable ref updates when replacing the primary odb Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-16  7:23                   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-16 20:38                     ` Neeraj Singh
2021-11-15 23:50                 ` [PATCH v9 3/9] bulk-checkin: rename 'state' variable and separate 'plugged' boolean Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:50                 ` [PATCH v9 4/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: batched disk flushes Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:50                 ` [PATCH v9 5/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: add windows support for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:51                 ` [PATCH v9 6/9] update-index: use the bulk-checkin infrastructure Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:51                 ` [PATCH v9 7/9] unpack-objects: " Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:51                 ` [PATCH v9 8/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: tests for batch mode Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-15 23:51                 ` [PATCH v9 9/9] core.fsyncobjectfiles: performance tests for add and stash Neeraj Singh via GitGitGadget
2021-11-16  8:02                 ` [PATCH v9 0/9] Implement a batched fsync option for core.fsyncObjectFiles Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-17  7:06                   ` Neeraj Singh
2021-11-17  7:24                     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-11-18  5:03                       ` Neeraj Singh
2021-12-01 14:15                         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-09 23:02                           ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-10  1:16                             ` Neeraj Singh
2022-03-10 14:01                               ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-10 17:52                                 ` Neeraj Singh
2022-03-10 18:08                                   ` rsbecker
2022-03-10 18:43                                     ` Neeraj Singh
2022-03-10 18:48                                       ` rsbecker

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