From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MIME_HTML_MOSTLY,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7696C433B4 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:41:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 802BB61008 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:41:02 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 802BB61008 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEB66EAB1; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:41:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B119D6E1F8 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:33:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id g8so29465810lfv.12 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 07:33:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nGOz5MO9cmPK8VT5b/KFPU2MX5HuBe/eh4ugjn19dew=; b=r384KC6RzsxWkGINKmNh0cyNnaWHodGhhsRYm6NtDS6ENN2PKQE3aotxd2c3xL2N8g DQ1mAfO2qaOc9onbTPbOqJGBMI+ZQcaFYX297A0bF2i/PYpKeR8MdfNrkZl3+KMRJROq vNb2reFRWE7sef+xAvL+CBwvYz4WBohlGgU5aCuWvsGUgQUqq2afjimsI15K/wUYVAlv /ixNsTCUcSDMrBGZUGNU2GBrA+o16qx9X4IeIIU6nfYmJYkwU8o8lWRi6dXVOtPRr1hx 322gLITybD6zYJv4w1c/uGnzs9kLd9gGwBxkWH8UavANrIYjT9R1Mo/+PxbOmZbOttrE dLsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nGOz5MO9cmPK8VT5b/KFPU2MX5HuBe/eh4ugjn19dew=; b=CYRyZvy5Iw0YGDI4Qw7cu4MF58uwc86HC1VaiVA7KwrlTKqjAXtRo+Ahef4gMLN5Np l4pkM9NiFqpVG9Pqr9mN8uX9THlA2EPmIhPT1etVOV11uX3QJNjzRBbBOCmmG2x6o3R8 I3vh/mEaur0SrbsP0ITv1sbWi8d4PMRIdhZTZ3Aic4JOLuKeAx/9Yc76mGaVNL2n3+KN fCuX0lrhUTRuggoDabK9jnN3MxguGg2ZHXzD9tNXzO+ZNUJcqSM56PlY0+sDhG6AMPuq EOvvvApbvyPwS1JFbHiWPoOb5R4DbuWJXn94qHY9bAXWYnatg0KNJBc2/pmAF2hluMrN CGkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532GbuKQohXsvlu+T/kcL9kneAFkproCfgQbkCPffwcNHF2Z9wsQ MneDz8w63kiTSoYihDk6FvqqoT3tnsvnwnOjvWY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzVGjs3OwglbAlPR+0TWWpmQxKpQzFNKK7TqDoKjmdEw0FM+xkDR4LkblZ3R7PIsdqyu7KGqejT0BaQyaKAqY4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:370f:: with SMTP id z15mr2433778lfr.562.1617201236158; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 07:33:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <388b2a9d-0e63-b70f-28ed-6297a524fb76@amd.com> <909002f5-691c-1cbb-1e44-a99217be8791@gmail.com> <3d3563f3-f093-f293-e237-b87306a4cede@amd.com> <7914f67b-e011-36ec-3f6d-1614ce96e3c4@amd.com> In-Reply-To: From: Alberto Salvia Novella Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 16:33:44 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Interlaced resolutions hang the desktop To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=C3=B6nig?= X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:41:01 +0000 X-BeenThere: amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for AMD gfx List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alexander.deucher@amd.com, =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=C3=B6nig?= , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, benh@kernel.crashing.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1814394021==" Errors-To: amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "amd-gfx" --===============1814394021== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000362eaa05bed6018f" --000000000000362eaa05bed6018f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - The computer still replies to *ping*. - The *journal* shows no errors, but a few warnings . - The *mouse* doesn't freeze. On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 10:09, Christian K=C3=B6nig wrote: > Can you access the system over the network and see if there is anything i= n > the system log? > > It sounds like the display stack has crashed, but when the sound keeps > playing the system is most likely still responsive over network. > > Thanks, > Christian. > > Am 31.03.21 um 10:05 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: > > What happens is this simple: after a few minutes, about 6 or so, the > entire content of the screen stays still. In some minor situations only t= he > applications panel of KDE Plasma. > > If music is playing it continues playing, so only graphics are hung. Yet > in most cases the power button won't shut down the computer, as it usuall= y > does. > > At least this is the case using kwin on x11, and not on wayland. It only > happens on "radeon" and not on Intel or "radeonhd". > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:48, Christian K=C3=B6nig > wrote: > >> Correct, but a TV is intended for videos only. That's why it implements >> only the lower HDMI standard. >> >> Interlaced transmits only halve the lines with each frame, so a 60Hz mod= e >> effectively either becomes a 30Hz mode, halving the vertical resolution = or >> adaptive motion compensated which the know visual artifacts. Depending o= n >> what the deinterlacing setting on your TV is. >> >> You could just add a progressive 1920x540@60 or 1920x1080@30 mode >> manually and would have the same effect with probably better quality. Se= e >> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing >> >> for reference. >> >> If you can give us some more information what is happening when the >> system freeze we could try to narrow this down, but we can't spend much >> time on a very specific use case in a driver which is in maintenance mod= e. >> >> Regards, >> Christian. >> >> Am 31.03.21 um 09:21 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >> >> 24fps is intended for video only. Anything interactive at 24fps, as just >> moving the mouse around, is extremely choppy. >> >> No way anyone would prefer that over an interlaced resolution or a lower >> resolution. That is, by far, the worst option. >> >> Just try it on your screen, set it to 24Hz or alike, and tell me your >> experience. You can't even tell where the mouse is going to go. >> >> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 08:44, Christian K=C3=B6nig >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Alberto, >>> >>> well a frame rate of 24Hz is perfectly reasonable for a TV and desktop >>> usage. >>> >>> This is probably caused by the TVs limited HDMI bandwidth and a refresh >>> rate of 30/25 Hz for the interlaced mode isn't much better either. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Christian. >>> >>> Am 30.03.21 um 22:59 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>> >>> The frame-rate at 24Hz is extremely poor for normal desktop usage. >>> >>> If the highest resolution, aka 1080p, uses that refresh rate then the >>> desktop will default to that frame-rate. >>> >>> Other progressive modes don't exhibit any issue. >>> >>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 18:26, Christian K=C3=B6nig >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Alberto, >>>> >>>> I think the driver should only support resolutions that are >>>> *progressive*, but also at least of *50Hz*. >>>> >>>> >>>> Why do you think so?, the 24Hz resolution seems to be the native one o= f >>>> the display. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Christian. >>>> >>>> Am 30.03.21 um 17:37 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>>> >>>> This is why I'm using interlaced: >>>> >>>> $ *xrandr* >>>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192 >>>> DisplayPort-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) >>>> HDMI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x >>>> axis y axis) 16mm x 9mm >>>> 1920x*1080i* 60.00*+ 50.00 59.94 >>>> 1920x1080 *24.00* 23.98 >>>> 1280x*720* 60.00 50.00 59.94 >>>> 1024x768 75.03 70.07 60.00 >>>> 832x624 74.55 >>>> 800x600 72.19 75.00 60.32 56.25 >>>> 720x576 50.00 >>>> 720x576i 50.00 >>>> 720x480 60.00 59.94 >>>> 720x480i 60.00 59.94 >>>> 640x480 75.00 72.81 66.67 60.00 59.94 >>>> 720x400 70.08 >>>> DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) >>>> >>>> I think the driver should only support resolutions that are >>>> *progressive*, but also at least of *50Hz*. >>>> >>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 15:41, Christian K=C3=B6nig < >>>> ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mhm, no idea why an interlaced resolution would cause a crash. Maybe >>>>> some miscalculation in the display code. >>>>> >>>>> But apart from that if you just connected your PC to a TV I also >>>>> wouldn't recommend using an interlaced resolution in the first place. >>>>> >>>>> See those resolutions only exists for backward compatibility with >>>>> analog hardware. >>>>> >>>>> I think we would just disable those modes instead of searching for th= e >>>>> bug. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Christian. >>>>> >>>>> Am 30.03.21 um 11:07 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>>>> >>>>> I guessed so. >>>>> >>>>> The GPU is a Radeon HD5870, and the screen is an old Telefunken TV >>>>> (TLFK22LEDPVR1). >>>>> >>>>> Since my real display got into repair I used this TV meanwhile, and t= o >>>>> my surprise it froze the system. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 10:15, Christian K=C3=B6nig < >>>>> christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alberto, >>>>>> >>>>>> well what hardware do you have? >>>>>> >>>>>> Interlaced resolutions are not used any more on modern hardware, so >>>>>> they >>>>>> are not well tested. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Christian. >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 30.03.21 um 10:04 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>>>>> > The entire desktop hangs after some minutes when using the module >>>>>> > "radeon" with an interlaced resolution. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Easier to trigger by playing a video on Firefox, at least on >>>>>> kwin_x11. >>>>>> > Wayland didn't exhibit the problem. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Other display drivers, from different computers I have tried, >>>>>> didn't >>>>>> > allow those interlaced resolutions all together. It seems they kno= w >>>>>> > there will be problems. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> amd-gfx mailing listamd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.orghttps://lists.freede= sktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > --000000000000362eaa05bed6018f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
- The computer still replies to ping.
- The journal shows no errors, but a few warnings.
- The mouse doesn't freeze.
=
= On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 10:09, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
=20
Can you access the system over the network and see if there is anything in the system log?

It sounds like the display stack has crashed, but when the sound keeps playing the system is most likely still responsive over network.

Thanks,
Christian.

Am 31.03.21 um 10:05 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
=20
What happens is this simple: after a few minutes, about 6 or so, the entire content of the screen stays still. In some minor situations only the applications panel of KDE Plasma.

If music is playing it continues playing, so only graphics are hung. Yet in most cases the power button won't shut down the computer, as it usually does.

At least this is the case using kwin on x11, and not on wayland. It only happens on "radeon" and not on Intel o= r "radeonhd".

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:48, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Correct, but a TV is intended for videos only. That's why it implements only the lower HDMI standard.

Interlaced transmits only halve the lines with each frame, so a 60Hz mode effectively either becomes a 30Hz mode, halving the vertical resolution or adaptive motion compensated which the know visual artifacts. Depending on what the deinterlacing setting on your TV is.

You could just add a progressive 1920x540@60 or 1920x1080@30 mode manually and would have the same effect with probably better quality. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/De= interlacing for reference.

If you can give us some more information what is happening when the system freeze we could try to narrow this down, but we can't spend much time on a very specific use case in a driver which is in maintenance mode.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 31.03.21 um 09:21 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
24fps is intended for video only. Anything interactive at 24fps, as just moving the mouse around, is extremely choppy.

No way anyone would prefer that over an interlaced resolution or a lower resolution. That is, by far, the worst option.

Just try it on your screen, set it to 24Hz or alike, and tell me your experience. You can't even tell where the mouse is going to go.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 a= t 08:44, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

well a frame rate of 24Hz is perfectly reasonable for a TV and desktop usage.

This is probably caused by the TVs limited HDMI bandwidth and a refresh rate of 30/25 Hz for the interlaced mode isn't much better either.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 22:59 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
The frame-rate at 24Hz is extremely poor for normal desktop usage.

If the highest resolution, aka 1080p, uses that refresh rate then the desktop will default to that frame-rate.

Other progressive modes don't exhibit any issue.

On Tue, 30 Ma= r 2021 at 18:26, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd= .com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

I think the driver should only support resolutions that are p= rogressive, but also at least of 50Hz.
Why do you think so?, the 24Hz resolution seems to be the native one of the display.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 17:37 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
This is why I'm using interlaced:<= br>

$ xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192
DisplayPort-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 16mm x 9mm
=C2=A0 =C2=A01920x1080i =C2=A0 =C2= =A060.00*+ =C2=A050.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A01920x1080 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2= 4.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A023.98 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A01280x720 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A060.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A050.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A01024x768 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A075.03 =C2=A0 =C2=A070.07 =C2=A0 =C2=A060.00 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0832x624 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 74.55 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0800x600 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 72.19 =C2=A0 =C2=A075.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A060.32 =C2=A0 =C2=A056.25 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x576 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 50.00 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x576i =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A050.00 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x480 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 60.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x480i =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A060.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0640x480 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 75.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A072.81 =C2=A0 =C2=A066.67 =C2=A0 =C2=A060.00 =C2=A0 =C2= =A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x400 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 70.08 =C2=A0
DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

I think the driver should only support resolutions that are progressi= ve, but also at least of 50Hz.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 15:41, Christian K=C3=B6nig <ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Mhm, no idea why an interlaced resolution would cause a crash. Maybe some miscalculation in the display code.

But apart from that if you just connected your PC to a TV I also wouldn't recommend using an interlaced resolution in the first place.

See those resolutions only exists for backward compatibility with analog hardware.

I think we would just disable those modes instead of searching for the bug.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 11:07 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
I guessed so.

The GPU is a Radeon HD5870, and the screen is an old Telefunken TV (TLFK22LEDPVR1).

Since my real display got into repair I used this TV meanwhile, and to my surprise it froze the system.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 10:15, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd.com>= ; wrote:
Hi Alberto,

well what hardware do you have?

Interlaced resolutions are not used any more on modern hardware, so they
are not well tested.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 10:04 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
> The entire desktop hangs after some minutes when using the module
> "radeon" with an interlaced resolution.
>
> Easier to trigger by playing a video on Firefox, at least on kwin_x11.
> Wayland didn't exhibit the problem.
>
> Other display drivers, from different computers I have tried, didn't
> allow those interlaced resolutions all together. It seems they know
> there will be problems.


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