From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.6 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65F9CC433B4 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:36:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 262036192F for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:36:04 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 262036192F Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9656E22F; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:36:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD1206EA00 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:05:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 15so22843643ljj.0 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 01:05:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cay5i5Z0SEne3BBm2jtJnHN+WhOcZuxkRGhH/oWEGyo=; b=g81UF9OzT9T1+l9nepDTYYSGzvgJNUEcXZEvaINFpGx3WwwVNmR44NJkp+LjWPyQE5 v6cHM/21G4n8hKA4zOmWsIyZZ4iT6nnpic0bjmx+r837s7rS2I+RU1uEvHnhhTkSjLtD wL/wxBNQ4hm3X3/oTLzVrRIBvjXwPvHg2W06DBFpaE/xvySwOI1BNA76e0kelqH1IGKU LWZzPLdLHsnEY4xlmQEaxSS/HuTsWt5sb/77xZZ/G7RfsE0rfKRqkvgCCILz0PP8ccrj hc7NI27noTEHJlrC2e4s8arY4RD+t9rKNW7Q6tRM0bNPja6L5mvuRp2mH5rWXkRD16o4 XR9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cay5i5Z0SEne3BBm2jtJnHN+WhOcZuxkRGhH/oWEGyo=; b=LVUNu9D3/dzRAeuaKAI5xgtqhZT1/8JHWdAYemhIV6VFdHHZaLLRycxs0QWuJNCrmq GNeb3forbHjAjypCMa3sjRPfmKVDa/BU1fgNS73VOtj4NdBQoPzF1AjXBBaJbq1S0W8m Qd6y4JoAA1gGAwyTpDglJYuvmvSjYyUrzPqWgZsb7ZqqDX/zlmti9ZyuecbM+GC3H/eI KBRI4qGi8FJ+qDNVlMIplavPz1II9G5Q0fgyxNXt1KbCjhy3vYk8+4LCh37fGTjMxXCv RKRPOtGVf3QIBC28Ly1bWmq5/raRCEAkhOwrJKUh8SsO5HkoUFo6gUH252/V52UeMpw8 OJ0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Z2R6gLGIARtHPaCMXOJPHgQQcz3BTlkglUSHHazlbt6nIgeo0 p/kdbrsladu68RCyFODirTpxa84nH3Nx42kUAfx7pKRpzcU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwEneqgeqD02ZKGg0PMnKLhVs6rCHEsuYbUwtnIrKJiEBAXfJwWkznVLeNnGMZPewdzXeLwRMwYet+Gt94VgB4= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b4f6:: with SMTP id s22mr1272788ljm.328.1617177929370; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 01:05:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <388b2a9d-0e63-b70f-28ed-6297a524fb76@amd.com> <909002f5-691c-1cbb-1e44-a99217be8791@gmail.com> <3d3563f3-f093-f293-e237-b87306a4cede@amd.com> <7914f67b-e011-36ec-3f6d-1614ce96e3c4@amd.com> In-Reply-To: <7914f67b-e011-36ec-3f6d-1614ce96e3c4@amd.com> From: Alberto Salvia Novella Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:05:17 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Interlaced resolutions hang the desktop To: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=C3=B6nig?= X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:36:02 +0000 X-BeenThere: amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for AMD gfx List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alexander.deucher@amd.com, =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=C3=B6nig?= , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, benh@kernel.crashing.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0558239395==" Errors-To: amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "amd-gfx" --===============0558239395== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004d07d05bed09470" --00000000000004d07d05bed09470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What happens is this simple: after a few minutes, about 6 or so, the entire content of the screen stays still. In some minor situations only the applications panel of KDE Plasma. If music is playing it continues playing, so only graphics are hung. Yet in most cases the power button won't shut down the computer, as it usually does. At least this is the case using kwin on x11, and not on wayland. It only happens on "radeon" and not on Intel or "radeonhd". On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:48, Christian K=C3=B6nig wrote: > Correct, but a TV is intended for videos only. That's why it implements > only the lower HDMI standard. > > Interlaced transmits only halve the lines with each frame, so a 60Hz mode > effectively either becomes a 30Hz mode, halving the vertical resolution o= r > adaptive motion compensated which the know visual artifacts. Depending on > what the deinterlacing setting on your TV is. > > You could just add a progressive 1920x540@60 or 1920x1080@30 mode > manually and would have the same effect with probably better quality. See > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing for reference. > > If you can give us some more information what is happening when the syste= m > freeze we could try to narrow this down, but we can't spend much time on = a > very specific use case in a driver which is in maintenance mode. > > Regards, > Christian. > > Am 31.03.21 um 09:21 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: > > 24fps is intended for video only. Anything interactive at 24fps, as just > moving the mouse around, is extremely choppy. > > No way anyone would prefer that over an interlaced resolution or a lower > resolution. That is, by far, the worst option. > > Just try it on your screen, set it to 24Hz or alike, and tell me your > experience. You can't even tell where the mouse is going to go. > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 08:44, Christian K=C3=B6nig > wrote: > >> Hi Alberto, >> >> well a frame rate of 24Hz is perfectly reasonable for a TV and desktop >> usage. >> >> This is probably caused by the TVs limited HDMI bandwidth and a refresh >> rate of 30/25 Hz for the interlaced mode isn't much better either. >> >> Regards, >> Christian. >> >> Am 30.03.21 um 22:59 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >> >> The frame-rate at 24Hz is extremely poor for normal desktop usage. >> >> If the highest resolution, aka 1080p, uses that refresh rate then the >> desktop will default to that frame-rate. >> >> Other progressive modes don't exhibit any issue. >> >> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 18:26, Christian K=C3=B6nig >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Alberto, >>> >>> I think the driver should only support resolutions that are >>> *progressive*, but also at least of *50Hz*. >>> >>> >>> Why do you think so?, the 24Hz resolution seems to be the native one of >>> the display. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Christian. >>> >>> Am 30.03.21 um 17:37 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>> >>> This is why I'm using interlaced: >>> >>> $ *xrandr* >>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192 >>> DisplayPort-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) >>> HDMI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x >>> axis y axis) 16mm x 9mm >>> 1920x*1080i* 60.00*+ 50.00 59.94 >>> 1920x1080 *24.00* 23.98 >>> 1280x*720* 60.00 50.00 59.94 >>> 1024x768 75.03 70.07 60.00 >>> 832x624 74.55 >>> 800x600 72.19 75.00 60.32 56.25 >>> 720x576 50.00 >>> 720x576i 50.00 >>> 720x480 60.00 59.94 >>> 720x480i 60.00 59.94 >>> 640x480 75.00 72.81 66.67 60.00 59.94 >>> 720x400 70.08 >>> DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) >>> >>> I think the driver should only support resolutions that are >>> *progressive*, but also at least of *50Hz*. >>> >>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 15:41, Christian K=C3=B6nig < >>> ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Mhm, no idea why an interlaced resolution would cause a crash. Maybe >>>> some miscalculation in the display code. >>>> >>>> But apart from that if you just connected your PC to a TV I also >>>> wouldn't recommend using an interlaced resolution in the first place. >>>> >>>> See those resolutions only exists for backward compatibility with >>>> analog hardware. >>>> >>>> I think we would just disable those modes instead of searching for the >>>> bug. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Christian. >>>> >>>> Am 30.03.21 um 11:07 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>>> >>>> I guessed so. >>>> >>>> The GPU is a Radeon HD5870, and the screen is an old Telefunken TV >>>> (TLFK22LEDPVR1). >>>> >>>> Since my real display got into repair I used this TV meanwhile, and to >>>> my surprise it froze the system. >>>> >>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 10:15, Christian K=C3=B6nig >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Alberto, >>>>> >>>>> well what hardware do you have? >>>>> >>>>> Interlaced resolutions are not used any more on modern hardware, so >>>>> they >>>>> are not well tested. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Christian. >>>>> >>>>> Am 30.03.21 um 10:04 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>>>> > The entire desktop hangs after some minutes when using the module >>>>> > "radeon" with an interlaced resolution. >>>>> > >>>>> > Easier to trigger by playing a video on Firefox, at least on >>>>> kwin_x11. >>>>> > Wayland didn't exhibit the problem. >>>>> > >>>>> > Other display drivers, from different computers I have tried, didn'= t >>>>> > allow those interlaced resolutions all together. It seems they know >>>>> > there will be problems. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> amd-gfx mailing listamd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.orghttps://lists.freedes= ktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > --00000000000004d07d05bed09470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What happens is this simple: after a few minutes, abo= ut 6 or so, the entire content of the screen stays still. In some minor sit= uations only the applications panel of KDE Plasma.

If music is playing it continues playing, so only graphics are hung. Yet i= n most cases the power button won't shut down the computer, as it usual= ly does.

At least this is the case using kwin = on x11, and not on wayland. It only happens on "radeon" and not o= n Intel or "radeonhd".

=
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:48, Christi= an K=C3=B6nig <christian.koe= nig@amd.com> wrote:
=20
Correct, but a TV is intended for videos only. That's why it implements only the lower HDMI standard.

Interlaced transmits only halve the lines with each frame, so a 60Hz mode effectively either becomes a 30Hz mode, halving the vertical resolution or adaptive motion compensated which the know visual artifacts. Depending on what the deinterlacing setting on your TV is.

You could just add a progressive 1920x540@60 or 1920x1080@30 mode manually and would have the same effect with probably better quality. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing for reference.

If you can give us some more information what is happening when the system freeze we could try to narrow this down, but we can't spend much time on a very specific use case in a driver which is in maintenance mode.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 31.03.21 um 09:21 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
=20
24fps is intended for video only. Anything interactive at 24fps, as just moving the mouse around, is extremely choppy.

No way anyone would prefer that over an interlaced resolution or a lower resolution. That is, by far, the worst option.

Just try it on your screen, set it to 24Hz or alike, and tell me your experience. You can't even tell where the mouse is going to go.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 08:44, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

well a frame rate of 24Hz is perfectly reasonable for a TV and desktop usage.

This is probably caused by the TVs limited HDMI bandwidth and a refresh rate of 30/25 Hz for the interlaced mode isn'= t much better either.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 22:59 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
The frame-rate at 24Hz is extremely poor for normal desktop usage.

If the highest resolution, aka 1080p, uses that refresh rate then the desktop will default to that frame-rate.

Other progressive modes don't exhibit any issue.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 a= t 18:26, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

I think the driver should only support resolutions that are progressive, but also at least of 50Hz.

Why do you think so?, the 24Hz resolution seems to be the native one of the display.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 17:37 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
This is why I'm using interlaced:

$ xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192
DisplayPort-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 16mm x 9mm
=C2=A0 =C2=A01920x1080i =C2=A0 =C2=A060.00= *+ =C2=A050.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A01920x1080 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24.00= =C2=A0 =C2=A023.98 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A01280x720 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 60.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A050.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A01024x768 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A075.03 = =C2=A0 =C2=A070.07 =C2=A0 =C2=A060.00 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0832x624 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 74.55 = =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0800x600 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 72.19 = =C2=A0 =C2=A075.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A060.32 =C2=A0 =C2=A056.25 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x576 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 50.00 = =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x576i =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A050.00 = =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x480 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 60.00 = =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x480i =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A060.00 = =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0640x480 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 75.00 = =C2=A0 =C2=A072.81 =C2=A0 =C2=A066.67 =C2=A0 =C2=A060.00 =C2=A0 =C2=A059.94 =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0720x400 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 70.08 = =C2=A0
DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

I think the driver should only support resolutions that are progressive, but also at least of 50Hz.

On Tue, 30 Ma= r 2021 at 15:41, Christian K=C3=B6nig <ckoenig.leic= htzumerken@gmail.com> wrote:
Mhm, no idea why an interlaced resolution would cause a crash. Maybe some miscalculation in the display code.

But apart from that if you just connected your PC to a TV I also wouldn't recommend using an interlaced resolution in the first place.

See those resolutions only exists for backward compatibility with analog hardware.
I think we would just disable those modes instead of searching for the bug.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 11:07 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
I guessed so.

The GPU is a Radeon HD5870, and the screen is an old Telefunken TV (TLFK22LEDPVR1).

Since my real display got into repair I used this TV meanwhile, and to my surprise it froze the system.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 10:15, Christian K=C3=B6nig <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

well what hardware do you have?

Interlaced resolutions are not used any more on modern hardware, so they
are not well tested.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 10:04 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
> The entire desktop hangs after some minutes when using the module
> "radeon" with an interlace= d resolution.
>
> Easier to trigger by playing a video on Firefox, at least on kwin_x11.
> Wayland didn't exhibit the problem.
>
> Other display drivers, from different computers I have tried, didn't
> allow those interlaced resolutions all together. It seems they know
> there will be problems.


________________________________________=
_______
amd-gfx mailing list
amd-gfx@=
lists.freedesktop.org
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/=
amd-gfx




--00000000000004d07d05bed09470-- --===============0558239395== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ amd-gfx mailing list amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx --===============0558239395==--