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dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; lists.freedesktop.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=amd.com; Received: from MN2PR12MB3775.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:159::19) by MN2PR12MB4110.namprd12.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:1dd::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3977.24; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:09:44 +0000 Received: from MN2PR12MB3775.namprd12.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c1ff:dcf1:9536:a1f2]) by MN2PR12MB3775.namprd12.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c1ff:dcf1:9536:a1f2%2]) with mapi id 15.20.3977.033; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:09:44 +0000 Subject: Re: Interlaced resolutions hang the desktop To: Alberto Salvia Novella References: <388b2a9d-0e63-b70f-28ed-6297a524fb76@amd.com> <909002f5-691c-1cbb-1e44-a99217be8791@gmail.com> <3d3563f3-f093-f293-e237-b87306a4cede@amd.com> <7914f67b-e011-36ec-3f6d-1614ce96e3c4@amd.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=c3=b6nig?= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:09:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; 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boundary="===============0247288580==" Errors-To: amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "amd-gfx" --===============0247288580== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6B593D2A6B597A2D905B01A6" Content-Language: en-US --------------6B593D2A6B597A2D905B01A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can you access the system over the network and see if there is anything in the system log? It sounds like the display stack has crashed, but when the sound keeps playing the system is most likely still responsive over network. Thanks, Christian. Am 31.03.21 um 10:05 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: > What happens is this simple: after a few minutes, about 6 or so, the > entire content of the screen stays still. In some minor situations > only the applications panel of KDE Plasma. > > If music is playing it continues playing, so only graphics are hung. > Yet in most cases the power button won't shut down the computer, as it > usually does. > > At least this is the case using kwin on x11, and not on wayland. It > only happens on "radeon" and not on Intel or "radeonhd". > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:48, Christian König > > wrote: > > Correct, but a TV is intended for videos only. That's why it > implements only the lower HDMI standard. > > Interlaced transmits only halve the lines with each frame, so a > 60Hz mode effectively either becomes a 30Hz mode, halving the > vertical resolution or adaptive motion compensated which the know > visual artifacts. Depending on what the deinterlacing setting on > your TV is. > > You could just add a progressive 1920x540@60 or 1920x1080@30 mode > manually and would have the same effect with probably better > quality. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing > > for reference. > > If you can give us some more information what is happening when > the system freeze we could try to narrow this down, but we can't > spend much time on a very specific use case in a driver which is > in maintenance mode. > > Regards, > Christian. > > Am 31.03.21 um 09:21 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >> 24fps is intended for video only. Anything interactive at 24fps, >> as just moving the mouse around, is extremely choppy. >> >> No way anyone would prefer that over an interlaced resolution or >> a lower resolution. That is, by far, the worst option. >> >> Just try it on your screen, set it to 24Hz or alike, and tell me >> your experience. You can't even tell where the mouse is going to go. >> >> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 08:44, Christian König >> > wrote: >> >> Hi Alberto, >> >> well a frame rate of 24Hz is perfectly reasonable for a TV >> and desktop usage. >> >> This is probably caused by the TVs limited HDMI bandwidth and >> a refresh rate of 30/25 Hz for the interlaced mode isn't much >> better either. >> >> Regards, >> Christian. >> >> Am 30.03.21 um 22:59 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>> The frame-rate at 24Hz is extremely poor for normal desktop >>> usage. >>> >>> If the highest resolution, aka 1080p, uses that refresh rate >>> then the desktop will default to that frame-rate. >>> >>> Other progressive modes don't exhibit any issue. >>> >>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 18:26, Christian König >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alberto, >>> >>>> I think the driver should only support resolutions that >>>> are *progressive*, but also at least of *50Hz*. >>> >>> Why do you think so?, the 24Hz resolution seems to be >>> the native one of the display. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Christian. >>> >>> Am 30.03.21 um 17:37 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>>> This is why I'm using interlaced: >>>> >>>> $ *xrandr* >>>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, >>>> maximum 8192 x 8192 >>>> DisplayPort-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right >>>> x axis y axis) >>>> HDMI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left >>>> inverted right x axis y axis) 16mm x 9mm >>>>    1920x*1080i*    60.00*+  50.00    59.94 >>>>    1920x1080 *24.00*  23.98 >>>>    1280x*720*      60.00    50.00    59.94 >>>>    1024x768      75.03    70.07  60.00 >>>>    832x624       74.55 >>>>    800x600       72.19    75.00  60.32    56.25 >>>>    720x576       50.00 >>>>    720x576i      50.00 >>>>    720x480       60.00    59.94 >>>>    720x480i      60.00    59.94 >>>>    640x480       75.00    72.81  66.67    60.00    59.94 >>>>    720x400       70.08 >>>> DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y >>>> axis) >>>> >>>> I think the driver should only support resolutions that >>>> are *progressive*, but also at least of *50Hz*. >>>> >>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 15:41, Christian König >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Mhm, no idea why an interlaced resolution would >>>> cause a crash. Maybe some miscalculation in the >>>> display code. >>>> >>>> But apart from that if you just connected your PC >>>> to a TV I also wouldn't recommend using an >>>> interlaced resolution in the first place. >>>> >>>> See those resolutions only exists for backward >>>> compatibility with analog hardware. >>>> >>>> I think we would just disable those modes instead >>>> of searching for the bug. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Christian. >>>> >>>> Am 30.03.21 um 11:07 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella: >>>>> I guessed so. >>>>> >>>>> The GPU is a Radeon HD5870, and the screen is an >>>>> old Telefunken TV (TLFK22LEDPVR1). >>>>> >>>>> Since my real display got into repair I used this >>>>> TV meanwhile, and to my surprise it froze the system. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 10:15, Christian König >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Alberto, >>>>> >>>>> well what hardware do you have? >>>>> >>>>> Interlaced resolutions are not used any more >>>>> on modern hardware, so they >>>>> are not well tested. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Christian. >>>>> >>>>> Am 30.03.21 um 10:04 schrieb Alberto Salvia >>>>> Novella: >>>>> > The entire desktop hangs after some minutes >>>>> when using the module >>>>> > "radeon" with an interlaced resolution. >>>>> > >>>>> > Easier to trigger by playing a video on >>>>> Firefox, at least on kwin_x11. >>>>> > Wayland didn't exhibit the problem. >>>>> > >>>>> > Other display drivers, from different >>>>> computers I have tried, didn't >>>>> > allow those interlaced resolutions all >>>>> together. It seems they know >>>>> > there will be problems. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> amd-gfx mailing list >>>>> amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org >>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx >>>> >>> >> > --------------6B593D2A6B597A2D905B01A6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Can you access the system over the network and see if there is anything in the system log?

It sounds like the display stack has crashed, but when the sound keeps playing the system is most likely still responsive over network.

Thanks,
Christian.

Am 31.03.21 um 10:05 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
What happens is this simple: after a few minutes, about 6 or so, the entire content of the screen stays still. In some minor situations only the applications panel of KDE Plasma.

If music is playing it continues playing, so only graphics are hung. Yet in most cases the power button won't shut down the computer, as it usually does.

At least this is the case using kwin on x11, and not on wayland. It only happens on "radeon" and not on Intel or "radeonhd".

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:48, Christian König <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Correct, but a TV is intended for videos only. That's why it implements only the lower HDMI standard.

Interlaced transmits only halve the lines with each frame, so a 60Hz mode effectively either becomes a 30Hz mode, halving the vertical resolution or adaptive motion compensated which the know visual artifacts. Depending on what the deinterlacing setting on your TV is.

You could just add a progressive 1920x540@60 or 1920x1080@30 mode manually and would have the same effect with probably better quality. See https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing for reference.

If you can give us some more information what is happening when the system freeze we could try to narrow this down, but we can't spend much time on a very specific use case in a driver which is in maintenance mode.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 31.03.21 um 09:21 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
24fps is intended for video only. Anything interactive at 24fps, as just moving the mouse around, is extremely choppy.

No way anyone would prefer that over an interlaced resolution or a lower resolution. That is, by far, the worst option.

Just try it on your screen, set it to 24Hz or alike, and tell me your experience. You can't even tell where the mouse is going to go.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 08:44, Christian König <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

well a frame rate of 24Hz is perfectly reasonable for a TV and desktop usage.

This is probably caused by the TVs limited HDMI bandwidth and a refresh rate of 30/25 Hz for the interlaced mode isn't much better either.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 22:59 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
The frame-rate at 24Hz is extremely poor for normal desktop usage.

If the highest resolution, aka 1080p, uses that refresh rate then the desktop will default to that frame-rate.

Other progressive modes don't exhibit any issue.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 18:26, Christian König <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

I think the driver should only support resolutions that are progressive, but also at least of 50Hz.

Why do you think so?, the 24Hz resolution seems to be the native one of the display.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 17:37 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
This is why I'm using interlaced:

$ xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192
DisplayPort-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 16mm x 9mm
   1920x1080i    60.00*+  50.00    59.94  
   1920x1080     24.00    23.98  
   1280x720      60.00    50.00    59.94  
   1024x768      75.03    70.07    60.00  
   832x624       74.55  
   800x600       72.19    75.00    60.32    56.25  
   720x576       50.00  
   720x576i      50.00  
   720x480       60.00    59.94  
   720x480i      60.00    59.94  
   640x480       75.00    72.81    66.67    60.00    59.94  
   720x400       70.08  
DVI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)

I think the driver should only support resolutions that are progressive, but also at least of 50Hz.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 15:41, Christian König <ckoenig.leichtzumerken@gmail.com> wrote:
Mhm, no idea why an interlaced resolution would cause a crash. Maybe some miscalculation in the display code.

But apart from that if you just connected your PC to a TV I also wouldn't recommend using an interlaced resolution in the first place.

See those resolutions only exists for backward compatibility with analog hardware.

I think we would just disable those modes instead of searching for the bug.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 11:07 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
I guessed so.

The GPU is a Radeon HD5870, and the screen is an old Telefunken TV (TLFK22LEDPVR1).

Since my real display got into repair I used this TV meanwhile, and to my surprise it froze the system.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 at 10:15, Christian König <christian.koenig@amd.com> wrote:
Hi Alberto,

well what hardware do you have?

Interlaced resolutions are not used any more on modern hardware, so they
are not well tested.

Regards,
Christian.

Am 30.03.21 um 10:04 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella:
> The entire desktop hangs after some minutes when using the module
> "radeon" with an interlaced resolution.
>
> Easier to trigger by playing a video on Firefox, at least on kwin_x11.
> Wayland didn't exhibit the problem.
>
> Other display drivers, from different computers I have tried, didn't
> allow those interlaced resolutions all together. It seems they know
> there will be problems.


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