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* Using BATMAN over ppp interfaces.
@ 2023-07-12  4:29 petermilani80
  2023-07-12 11:55 ` Simon Wunderlich
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: petermilani80 @ 2023-07-12  4:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: b.a.t.m.a.n

Hi All,

I've just started using batman and was trying to see if I could get it to work over a serial radio link such as the simple serial devices commonly used in cheap drone telemetry. The goal here is to enable low bandwidth but adhoc ip networking. 

I had set up a pair of radios to connect using pppd and I was wondering if I could utilise batman to try and create a mesh. An example of setting up the serial ports as ppp interfaces:

$ sudo pppd /dev/ttyUSB0 57600 noauth nodetach 10.42.5.5:

That works fine but applying batman to that interface was unsuccessful. I think that was due to limitations in the ppp and interfaces created by pppd:
e.g.

$ sudo batctl if add ppp0
Error - failed to add interface ppp0: Invalid argument

The interface ppp0 was specified as POINTTOPOINT e.g.

$ ip link
$  ppp0: <POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST,NOARP,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 3

I'm not an expert in this so don't have full visibility of all the tools available.  I was wondering if there were better ways to set this up, possibly not using pppd? Any guidance would be appreciated.

cheers
Peter

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Using BATMAN over ppp interfaces.
  2023-07-12  4:29 Using BATMAN over ppp interfaces petermilani80
@ 2023-07-12 11:55 ` Simon Wunderlich
  2023-07-12 12:18   ` Peter Milani
       [not found]   ` <CAB_9twWTs3dxT97ze2YP44_6vgJBdXw5yQcDUO=M=RvNP27D1w@mail.gmail.com>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Simon Wunderlich @ 2023-07-12 11:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: b.a.t.m.a.n; +Cc: petermilani80

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On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 6:29:50 AM CEST petermilani80@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I've just started using batman and was trying to see if I could get it to
> work over a serial radio link such as the simple serial devices commonly
> used in cheap drone telemetry. The goal here is to enable low bandwidth but
> adhoc ip networking.
> 
> I had set up a pair of radios to connect using pppd and I was wondering if I
> could utilise batman to try and create a mesh. An example of setting up the
> serial ports as ppp interfaces:
> 
> $ sudo pppd /dev/ttyUSB0 57600 noauth nodetach 10.42.5.5:
> 
> That works fine but applying batman to that interface was unsuccessful. I
> think that was due to limitations in the ppp and interfaces created by
> pppd: e.g.
> 
> $ sudo batctl if add ppp0
> Error - failed to add interface ppp0: Invalid argument
> 
> The interface ppp0 was specified as POINTTOPOINT e.g.
> 
> $ ip link
> $  ppp0: <POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST,NOARP,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel
> state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 3
> 
> I'm not an expert in this so don't have full visibility of all the tools
> available.  I was wondering if there were better ways to set this up,
> possibly not using pppd? Any guidance would be appreciated.
> 
> cheers
> Peter

Hi Peter,

batman-adv requires an Ethernet compatible interface (Layer 2) to operate. PPP 
interfaces are Layer 3 interfaces (IP Layer), so that will not work. You could 
make a L2 tunnel over your PPP interface such as l2tp or vxlan and use that. 
Or perhaps there is a different/better way to enable an Ethernet Link over your 
drone radio directly ....

Cheers,
        Simon

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Using BATMAN over ppp interfaces.
  2023-07-12 11:55 ` Simon Wunderlich
@ 2023-07-12 12:18   ` Peter Milani
       [not found]   ` <CAB_9twWTs3dxT97ze2YP44_6vgJBdXw5yQcDUO=M=RvNP27D1w@mail.gmail.com>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Peter Milani @ 2023-07-12 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: b.a.t.m.a.n

Thanks Simon,

So to clarify, PPP relies on a higher level layer than what BATMAN uses? So you have to create an ethernet layer 2 interface using l2tp. But are more or less restricted to point to point routing in that case which l2tp will be travelling across.
So there's no alternate method you're aware of that can make use of the general broadcast nature of the underlying radio... e.g.. from an application perspective, I can transmit a serial message from one radio and pick that message with multiple receivers?

cheers
Peter

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Using BATMAN over ppp interfaces.
       [not found]   ` <CAB_9twWTs3dxT97ze2YP44_6vgJBdXw5yQcDUO=M=RvNP27D1w@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2023-07-12 12:28     ` Simon Wunderlich
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Simon Wunderlich @ 2023-07-12 12:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Milani; +Cc: b.a.t.m.a.n

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Hi Peter,

you have to create a Layer 2 interface somehow on top of your serial link - 
L2TP on PPP may be one way to do it, but you stack quite a bit of headers and 
can't really use the broadcast nature of the medium as you say. I'm not an 
expert on those serial drone radios, there may be some better readily 
available solutions. You could send the Ethernet frame as is with some 
checksumming I guess. Channel access is probably not ideal either (there is no 
CSMA/CA or arbitration). 

How fast is your drone radio? I hope its more than 9600 baud ... :)

Cheers,
       Simon

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 2:14:48 PM CEST Peter Milani wrote:
> Thanks Simon,
> 
> So to clarify, PPP relies on a higher level layer than what BATMAN uses? So
> you have to create an ethernet layer 2 interface using l2tp. But are more
> or less restricted to point to point routing in that case which l2tp will
> be travelling across.
> So there's no alternate method you're aware of that can make use of the
> general broadcast nature of the underlying radio... e.g.. from an
> application perspective, I can transmit a serial message from one radio and
> pick that message with multiple receivers?
> 
> cheers
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2023 at 21:55, Simon Wunderlich <sw@simonwunderlich.de>
> 
> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 6:29:50 AM CEST petermilani80@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > > 
> > > I've just started using batman and was trying to see if I could get it
> > > to
> > > work over a serial radio link such as the simple serial devices commonly
> > > used in cheap drone telemetry. The goal here is to enable low bandwidth
> > 
> > but
> > 
> > > adhoc ip networking.
> > > 
> > > I had set up a pair of radios to connect using pppd and I was wondering
> > 
> > if I
> > 
> > > could utilise batman to try and create a mesh. An example of setting up
> > 
> > the
> > 
> > > serial ports as ppp interfaces:
> > > 
> > > $ sudo pppd /dev/ttyUSB0 57600 noauth nodetach 10.42.5.5:
> > > 
> > > That works fine but applying batman to that interface was unsuccessful.
> > > I
> > > think that was due to limitations in the ppp and interfaces created by
> > > pppd: e.g.
> > > 
> > > $ sudo batctl if add ppp0
> > > Error - failed to add interface ppp0: Invalid argument
> > > 
> > > The interface ppp0 was specified as POINTTOPOINT e.g.
> > > 
> > > $ ip link
> > > $  ppp0: <POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST,NOARP,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc
> > 
> > fq_codel
> > 
> > > state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 3
> > > 
> > > I'm not an expert in this so don't have full visibility of all the tools
> > > available.  I was wondering if there were better ways to set this up,
> > > possibly not using pppd? Any guidance would be appreciated.
> > > 
> > > cheers
> > > Peter
> > 
> > Hi Peter,
> > 
> > batman-adv requires an Ethernet compatible interface (Layer 2) to operate.
> > PPP
> > interfaces are Layer 3 interfaces (IP Layer), so that will not work. You
> > could
> > make a L2 tunnel over your PPP interface such as l2tp or vxlan and use
> > that.
> > Or perhaps there is a different/better way to enable an Ethernet Link over
> > your
> > drone radio directly ....
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> >         Simon


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

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-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2023-07-12  4:29 Using BATMAN over ppp interfaces petermilani80
2023-07-12 11:55 ` Simon Wunderlich
2023-07-12 12:18   ` Peter Milani
     [not found]   ` <CAB_9twWTs3dxT97ze2YP44_6vgJBdXw5yQcDUO=M=RvNP27D1w@mail.gmail.com>
2023-07-12 12:28     ` Simon Wunderlich

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