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From: Martin Lau <kafai@fb.com>
To: John Fastabend <john.fastabend@gmail.com>
Cc: Jakub Sitnicki <jakub@cloudflare.com>,
	"bpf@vger.kernel.org" <bpf@vger.kernel.org>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"kernel-team@cloudflare.com" <kernel-team@cloudflare.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC bpf-next 0/5] Extend SOCKMAP to store listening sockets
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 21:38:11 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20191028213804.yv3xfjjlayfghkcr@kafai-mbp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5db758142fac5_6642abc699aa5c4fd@john-XPS-13-9370.notmuch>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 02:05:24PM -0700, John Fastabend wrote:
> Martin Lau wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 01:35:26PM +0100, Jakub Sitnicki wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 06:52 AM CET, Martin Lau wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 01:37:25PM +0200, Jakub Sitnicki wrote:
> > > >> This patch set is a follow up on a suggestion from LPC '19 discussions to
> > > >> make SOCKMAP (or a new map type derived from it) a generic type for storing
> > > >> established as well as listening sockets.
> > > >>
> > > >> We found ourselves in need of a map type that keeps references to listening
> > > >> sockets when working on making the socket lookup programmable, aka BPF
> > > >> inet_lookup [1].  Initially we repurposed REUSEPORT_SOCKARRAY but found it
> > > >> problematic to extend due to being tightly coupled with reuseport
> > > >> logic (see slides [2]).
> > > >> So we've turned our attention to SOCKMAP instead.
> > > >>
> > > >> As it turns out the changes needed to make SOCKMAP suitable for storing
> > > >> listening sockets are self-contained and have use outside of programming
> > > >> the socket lookup. Hence this patch set.
> > > >>
> > > >> With these patches SOCKMAP can be used in SK_REUSEPORT BPF programs as a
> > > >> drop-in replacement for REUSEPORT_SOCKARRAY for TCP. This can hopefully
> > > >> lead to code consolidation between the two map types in the future.
> > > > What is the plan for UDP support in sockmap?
> > > 
> > > It's on our road-map because without SOCKMAP support for UDP we won't be
> > > able to move away from TPROXY [1] and custom SO_BINDTOPREFIX extension
> > > [2] for steering new UDP flows to receiving sockets. Also we would like
> > > to look into using SOCKMAP for connected UDP socket splicing in the
> > > future [3].
> > > 
> > > I was planning to split work as follows:
> > > 
> > > 1. SOCKMAP support for listening sockets (this series)
> > > 2. programmable socket lookup for TCP (cut-down version of [4])
> > > 3. SOCKMAP support for UDP (work not started)
> > hmm...It is hard to comment how the full UDP sockmap may
> > work out without a code attempt because I am not fluent in
> > sock_map ;)
> > 
> > From a quick look, it seems there are quite a few things to do.
> > For example, the TCP_SKB_CB(skb) usage and how that may look
> > like in UDP.  "struct udp_skb_cb" is 28 bytes while "struct napi_gro_cb"
> > seems to be 48 bytes already which may need a closer look.
> 
> The extra bits sockmap needs are used for redirecting between
> between sockets. These will fit in the udp cb area with some
> extra room to spare. If that is paticularly challenging we can
> also create a program attach type which would preclude using
> those bits in the sk_reuseport bpf program types. We already
> have types for rx, tx, nop progs, so one more should be fine.
> 
> So at least that paticular concern is not difficult to fix.
> 
> > 
> > > 4. programmable socket lookup for UDP (rest of [4])
> > > 
> > > I'm open to suggestions on how to organize it.
> > > 
> > > >> Having said that, the main intention here is to lay groundwork for using
> > > >> SOCKMAP in the next iteration of programmable socket lookup patches.
> > > > What may be the minimal to get only lookup work for UDP sockmap?
> > > > .close() and .unhash()?
> > > 
> > > John would know better. I haven't tried doing it yet.
> > > 
> > > From just reading the code - override the two proto ops you mentioned,
> > > close and unhash, and adapt the socket checks in SOCKMAP.
> > Do your use cases need bpf prog attached to sock_map?
> 
> Perhaps not specifically sock_map but they do need to be consolidated
> into a map somewhere IMO this has proven to be the most versatile. We
> can add sockets from the various BPF hooks or from user space and have
> the ability to use the existing map tools, etc.
> 
> > 
> > If not, would it be cleaner to delicate another map_type
> > for lookup-only use case to have both TCP and UDP support.
> 
> But we (Cilium project and above splicing use case is also interested)
> will need UDP support so it will be supported regardless of the
> SK_REUSEPORT_BPF so I think it makes sense to consolidate all these
> use cases on to the existing sockmap.
> 
> Also sockmap supports inserting sockets from BPF and from userspace
> which actually requires a bit of logic to track state, etc. Its been
> in use and been beat on by various automated test tools so I think
> at minimum this needs to be reused. Re-implementing this logic seems
> a waste of time and it wasn't exactly trivial and took some work.
> 
> Being able to insert the sockets from XDP (support coming soon) and
> from sock_ops programs turns out to be fairly powerful.
> 
> So in short I think it makes most sense to consolidate on sock_map
> because
> 
>   (a) we need and will add udp support regardless,

>   (b) we already handle the tricky parts inerting/removing live sockets
I didn't mean not to reuse the existing sockmap logic on tracking
socks life-time.  I was exploring options if the first step for UDP
could be lookup-only support first.

It is always better to get full UDP support ;)
It seems to be confident also, then there is little reason not to do
so in UDP sockmap support v1.

>   (c) from this series it looks like its fairly straight forward
>   (d) we get lots of shared code
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > -Jakub
> > > 
> > > [1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__blog.cloudflare.com_how-2Dwe-2Dbuilt-2Dspectrum_&d=DwIBAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=VQnoQ7LvghIj0gVEaiQSUw&m=lSo-FsOeNl_8znZZ07H8I6ZYAinPKTR5C3Cn_Ol3QYQ&s=DZgW8-2Xl1P8NU59ji4ieQLzwWpx4t3gGq_tqB0l3Bo&e= 
> > > [2] https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/1458699966-3752-1-git-send-email-gilberto.bertin@gmail.com/
> > > [3] https://lore.kernel.org/bpf/20190828072250.29828-1-jakub@cloudflare.com/
> > > [4] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__blog.cloudflare.com_sockmap-2Dtcp-2Dsplicing-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dfuture_&d=DwIBAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=VQnoQ7LvghIj0gVEaiQSUw&m=lSo-FsOeNl_8znZZ07H8I6ZYAinPKTR5C3Cn_Ol3QYQ&s=NerUqb4j7IsGBTcni6Yxk40wf6kTkckHXn3Nx5i4mCU&e= 
> 
> 

  reply	other threads:[~2019-10-28 21:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-10-22 11:37 Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-22 11:37 ` [RFC bpf-next 1/5] bpf, sockmap: Let BPF helpers use lookup operation on SOCKMAP Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-24 16:59   ` John Fastabend
2019-10-22 11:37 ` [RFC bpf-next 2/5] bpf, sockmap: Allow inserting listening TCP sockets into SOCKMAP Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-24 17:06   ` John Fastabend
2019-10-25  9:41     ` Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-22 11:37 ` [RFC bpf-next 3/5] bpf, sockmap: Don't let child socket inherit psock or its ops on copy Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-22 11:37 ` [RFC bpf-next 4/5] bpf: Allow selecting reuseport socket from a SOCKMAP Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-22 11:37 ` [RFC bpf-next 5/5] selftests/bpf: Extend SK_REUSEPORT tests to cover SOCKMAP Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-24 16:12 ` [RFC bpf-next 0/5] Extend SOCKMAP to store listening sockets Alexei Starovoitov
2019-10-24 16:56 ` John Fastabend
2019-10-25  9:26   ` Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-25 14:18     ` John Fastabend
2019-10-28  5:52 ` Martin Lau
2019-10-28 12:35   ` Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-28 19:04     ` John Fastabend
2019-10-29  8:56       ` Jakub Sitnicki
2019-10-28 20:42     ` Martin Lau
2019-10-28 21:05       ` John Fastabend
2019-10-28 21:38         ` Martin Lau [this message]
2019-10-29  8:52           ` Jakub Sitnicki

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