From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3D6C2D0A3 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 00:41:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A701A206CB for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 00:41:53 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=networkplumber-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@networkplumber-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="1pqiTv9D" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728153AbgKGAlx (ORCPT ); Fri, 6 Nov 2020 19:41:53 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:55456 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726447AbgKGAlw (ORCPT ); Fri, 6 Nov 2020 19:41:52 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-x62b.google.com (mail-pl1-x62b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62b]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2D9CC0613CF for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x62b.google.com with SMTP id u2so1473610pls.10 for ; Fri, 06 Nov 2020 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networkplumber-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dviNMRAIXAmDCudz1B80N0S417MTOYQ9xF9puJHuKCk=; b=1pqiTv9D/1LsG0ehNOsFDhvZene1KLet1sBcx+n+Yjq4jNH0ZqAW4GmC6+kq8y+3xp H2NP6j5TxjveRA4HqLhEqT15xQaqDXWYIfAD2EadfahD9aZJr+EA5iBNQc3nlbofl0V+ ld/+UldBrxDD484iFxN1aTaMoySgm7KE+4ArQ5FcEp5kaMJuTOWd9Ga+7Le26dczDxfJ 3/UlIB6NJZFRy/jsHtBUE9hCpcGSvBbi/Bxd48Pd9NMLPErftNaOdBZjacsjwEb1Eynp 2Me/+u4SjSgdMsp/IoKTQfvHAAJj87Cnqahx3TMM6w9DfAueEs9+ruUsMbqd96DxvAVE 3+iA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dviNMRAIXAmDCudz1B80N0S417MTOYQ9xF9puJHuKCk=; b=lN2NngwdodRBWNxvy7lHKzEiE/KlPCu5nAJyLe3FCbUlz0u4cAO+HxlkSViik7+Rwv 7mljLV0CukiPhNtKc0jZ/lOBzhFKSuuCJ0DFNF44uNe2Xf1SDf3Ok85BX/VG4j5vH3i9 YxftI/TqpHozTFfIvwiqIPSNqbv/O9OhzcNFYbVfa78MyCILav9xtA3pH1+g2WtGnLmU +/DW+zGYNZoBcBVy70gLqU6JeyDOmdaVZgIzdvHm4YODNlXiCH1TdVnnEZnLNOQdr3zZ YsxrjJz8P6tOrwIkjyUzi730PshdzgK/whCNuSakQzu/p5EZ8N4mWcyGDljX4IGfY5Wq Vp9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531aWP4s2dR/+d3hgxB+vej7Yhz4UEcyMXHJqJXPO5iCtl/qmLRj eFHJ7ojkomc+plCzU+zJZmTu9A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJztFWMfsDNP5LgInpExKtVCm/PT9P0+9t/+Z5tvVU+cZ5V8Pfj3uqoCu8LjJw4Kn22vdvcHEw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7e47:b029:d6:c9f2:d50 with SMTP id a7-20020a1709027e47b02900d6c9f20d50mr3503094pln.81.1604709711369; Fri, 06 Nov 2020 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.local (204-195-22-127.wavecable.com. [204.195.22.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t12sm3515439pfq.79.2020.11.06.16.41.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 06 Nov 2020 16:41:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:41:42 -0800 From: Stephen Hemminger To: Andrii Nakryiko Cc: Alexei Starovoitov , Jiri Benc , Edward Cree , Hangbin Liu , David Ahern , Daniel Borkmann , Alexei Starovoitov , Martin KaFai Lau , Song Liu , Yonghong Song , David Miller , Jesper Dangaard Brouer , Networking , bpf , Andrii Nakryiko , Toke =?UTF-8?B?SMO4aWxhbmQtSsO4cmdlbnNlbg==?= Subject: Re: [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support Message-ID: <20201106164142.6d0955f9@hermes.local> In-Reply-To: References: <20201028132529.3763875-1-haliu@redhat.com> <3306d19c-346d-fcbc-bd48-f141db26a2aa@gmail.com> <71af5d23-2303-d507-39b5-833dd6ea6a10@gmail.com> <20201103225554.pjyuuhdklj5idk3u@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <20201104021730.GK2408@dhcp-12-153.nay.redhat.com> <20201104031145.nmtggnzomfee4fma@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <07f149f6-f8ac-96b9-350d-b289ef16d82f@solarflare.com> <20201106094425.5cc49609@redhat.com> <20201106152537.53737086@hermes.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: bpf@vger.kernel.org On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 15:30:38 -0800 Andrii Nakryiko wrote: > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 3:25 PM Stephen Hemminger > wrote: > > > > On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 13:04:16 -0800 > > Alexei Starovoitov wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 12:58 PM Andrii Nakryiko > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 12:44 AM Jiri Benc wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 12:19:00 -0800, Andrii Nakryiko wrote: > > > > > > I'll just quote myself here for your convenience. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I missed your original email for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > Submodule is a way that I know of to make this better for end users. > > > > > > If there are other ways to pull this off with shared library use, I'm > > > > > > all for it, it will save the security angle that distros are arguing > > > > > > for. E.g., if distributions will always have the latest libbpf > > > > > > available almost as soon as it's cut upstream *and* new iproute2 > > > > > > versions enforce the latest libbpf when they are packaged/released, > > > > > > then this might work equivalently for end users. If Linux distros > > > > > > would be willing to do this faithfully and promptly, I have no > > > > > > objections whatsoever. Because all that matters is BPF end user > > > > > > experience, as Daniel explained above. > > > > > > > > > > That's basically what we already do, for both Fedora and RHEL. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, it follows the distro release cycle, i.e. no version > > > > > upgrades - or very limited ones - during lifetime of a particular > > > > > release. But that would not be different if libbpf was bundled in > > > > > individual projects. > > > > > > > > Alright. Hopefully this would be sufficient in practice. > > > > > > I think bumping the minimal version of libbpf with every iproute2 release > > > is necessary as well. > > > Today iproute2-next should require 0.2.0. The cycle after it should be 0.3.0 > > > and so on. > > > This way at least some correlation between iproute2 and libbpf will be > > > established. > > > Otherwise it's a mess of versions and functionality from user point of view. > > > > As long as iproute2 6.0 and libbpf 0.11.0 continues to work on older kernel > > (like oldest living LTS 4.19 in 2023?); then it is fine. > > > > Just don't want libbpf to cause visible breakage for users. > > libbpf CI validates a bunch of selftests on 4.9 kernel, see [0]. It > should work on even older ones. Not all BPF programs would load and be > verified successfully, but libbpf itself should work regardless. > > [0] https://travis-ci.com/github/libbpf/libbpf/jobs/429362146 Look at the dates in my note, are you willing to promise that compatibility in future versions.