From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
To: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Cc: YiFei Zhu <zhuyifei1999@gmail.com>,
Linux Containers <containers@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
YiFei Zhu <yifeifz2@illinois.edu>, bpf <bpf@vger.kernel.org>,
kernel list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@cyphar.com>,
Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
Dimitrios Skarlatos <dskarlat@cs.cmu.edu>,
Giuseppe Scrivano <gscrivan@redhat.com>,
Hubertus Franke <frankeh@us.ibm.com>,
Jack Chen <jianyan2@illinois.edu>, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
Josep Torrellas <torrella@illinois.edu>,
Tianyin Xu <tyxu@illinois.edu>,
Tobin Feldman-Fitzthum <tobin@ibm.com>,
Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.pizza>,
Valentin Rothberg <vrothber@redhat.com>,
Will Drewry <wad@chromium.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 seccomp 3/6] seccomp/cache: Add "emulator" to check if filter is arg-dependent
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:34:29 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <677FA6F9-D577-4594-9FDC-D70B0D6900C6@amacapital.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <202009251648.4AA27D5B@keescook>
> On Sep 25, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 02:07:46PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 1:37 PM Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 12:51:20PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 25, 2020, at 12:42 PM, Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 11:45:05AM -0500, YiFei Zhu wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 10:04 PM YiFei Zhu <zhuyifei1999@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Why do the prepare here instead of during attach? (And note that it
>>>>>>>> should not be written to fail.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> During attach a spinlock (current->sighand->siglock) is held. Do we
>>>>>> really want to put the emulator in the "atomic section"?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a good point, but I had some other ideas around it that lead to me
>>>>> a different conclusion. Here's what I've got in my head:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't view filter attach (nor the siglock) as fastpath: the lock is
>>>>> rarely contested and the "long time" will only be during filter attach.
>>>>>
>>>>> When performing filter emulation, all the syscalls that are already
>>>>> marked as "must run filter" on the previous filter can be skipped for
>>>>> the new filter, since it cannot change the outcome, which makes the
>>>>> emulation step faster.
>>>>>
>>>>> The previous filter's bitmap isn't "stable" until siglock is held.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we do the emulation step before siglock, we have to always do full
>>>>> evaluation of all syscalls, and then merge the bitmap during attach.
>>>>> That means all filters ever attached will take maximal time to perform
>>>>> emulation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I prefer the idea of the emulation step taking advantage of the bitmap
>>>>> optimization, since the kernel spends less time doing work over the life
>>>>> of the process tree. It's certainly marginal, but it also lets all the
>>>>> bitmap manipulation stay in one place (as opposed to being split between
>>>>> "prepare" and "attach").
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m wondering if we should be much much lazier. We could potentially wait until someone actually tries to do a given syscall before we try to evaluate whether the result is fixed.
>>>
>>> That seems like we'd need to track yet another bitmap of "did we emulate
>>> this yet?" And it means the filter isn't really "done" until you run
>>> another syscall? eeh, I'm not a fan: it scratches at my desire for
>>> determinism. ;) Or maybe my implementation imagination is missing
>>> something?
>>>
>>
>> We'd need at least three states per syscall: unknown, always-allow,
>> and need-to-run-filter.
>>
>> The downsides are less determinism and a bit of an uglier
>> implementation. The upside is that we don't need to loop over all
>> syscalls at load -- instead the time that each operation takes is
>> independent of the total number of syscalls on the system. And we can
>> entirely avoid, say, evaluating the x32 case until the task tries an
>> x32 syscall.
>>
>> I think it's at least worth considering.
>
> Yeah, worth considering. I do still think the time spent in emulation is
> SO small that it doesn't matter running all of the syscalls at attach
> time. The filters are tiny and fail quickly if anything "interesting"
> start to happen. ;)
>
There’s a middle ground, too: do it lazily per arch. So we would allocate and populate the compat bitmap the first time a compat syscall is attempted and do the same for x32. This may help avoid the annoying extra memory usage and 3x startup overhead while retaining full functionality.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-09-26 0:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 149+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-09-21 5:35 [RFC PATCH seccomp 0/2] seccomp: Add bitmap cache of arg-independent filter results that allow syscalls YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 5:35 ` [RFC PATCH seccomp 1/2] seccomp/cache: Add "emulator" to check if filter is arg-dependent YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 17:47 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-21 18:38 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-21 23:44 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-22 0:25 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-22 0:47 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 5:35 ` [RFC PATCH seccomp 2/2] seccomp/cache: Cache filter results that allow syscalls YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 18:08 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-21 22:50 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 22:57 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-21 23:08 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-25 0:01 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 2/6] asm/syscall.h: Add syscall_arches[] array Kees Cook
2020-09-25 0:15 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-25 0:18 ` Al Viro
2020-09-25 0:24 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-25 1:27 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-25 3:09 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-25 3:28 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-25 16:39 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 5:48 ` [RFC PATCH seccomp 0/2] seccomp: Add bitmap cache of arg-independent filter results that allow syscalls Sargun Dhillon
2020-09-21 7:13 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 8:30 ` Christian Brauner
2020-09-21 8:44 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 13:51 ` Tycho Andersen
2020-09-21 15:27 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 16:39 ` Tycho Andersen
2020-09-21 22:57 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-21 19:16 ` Jann Horn
[not found] ` <OF8837FC1A.5C0D4D64-ON852585EA.006B677F-852585EA.006BA663@notes.na.collabserv.com>
2020-09-21 19:45 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-23 19:26 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-23 22:54 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 6:52 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-24 12:06 ` [PATCH seccomp 0/6] " YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:06 ` [PATCH seccomp 1/6] seccomp: Move config option SECCOMP to arch/Kconfig YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:06 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:06 ` [PATCH seccomp 2/6] asm/syscall.h: Add syscall_arches[] array YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:06 ` [PATCH seccomp 3/6] seccomp/cache: Add "emulator" to check if filter is arg-dependent YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:06 ` [PATCH seccomp 4/6] seccomp/cache: Lookup syscall allowlist for fast path YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:06 ` [PATCH seccomp 5/6] selftests/seccomp: Compare bitmap vs filter overhead YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:06 ` [PATCH seccomp 6/6] seccomp/cache: Report cache data through /proc/pid/seccomp_cache YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:44 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 0/6] seccomp: Add bitmap cache of arg-independent filter results that allow syscalls YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:44 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 1/6] seccomp: Move config option SECCOMP to arch/Kconfig YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 19:11 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-27 9:52 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-10-27 19:08 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-28 0:06 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-28 8:18 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-10-28 9:34 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-24 12:44 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 2/6] asm/syscall.h: Add syscall_arches[] array YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 13:47 ` David Laight
2020-09-24 14:16 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 14:20 ` David Laight
2020-09-24 14:37 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 16:02 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:44 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 3/6] seccomp/cache: Add "emulator" to check if filter is arg-dependent YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 23:25 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-25 3:04 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-25 16:45 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-25 19:42 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-25 19:51 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-09-25 20:37 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-25 21:07 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-09-25 23:49 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-26 0:34 ` Andy Lutomirski [this message]
2020-09-26 1:23 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-26 2:47 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-09-26 4:35 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-24 12:44 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 4/6] seccomp/cache: Lookup syscall allowlist for fast path YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 23:46 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-25 1:55 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:44 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 5/6] selftests/seccomp: Compare bitmap vs filter overhead YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 23:47 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-25 1:35 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 12:44 ` [PATCH v2 seccomp 6/6] seccomp/cache: Report cache data through /proc/pid/seccomp_cache YiFei Zhu
2020-09-24 23:56 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-25 3:11 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-25 3:26 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-30 15:19 ` [PATCH v3 seccomp 0/5] seccomp: Add bitmap cache of constant allow filter results YiFei Zhu
2020-09-30 15:19 ` [PATCH v3 seccomp 1/5] x86: Enable seccomp architecture tracking YiFei Zhu
2020-09-30 21:21 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-30 21:33 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-30 22:53 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-30 23:15 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-30 15:19 ` [PATCH v3 seccomp 2/5] seccomp/cache: Add "emulator" to check if filter is constant allow YiFei Zhu
2020-09-30 22:24 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-30 22:49 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-01 11:28 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-01 21:08 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-30 22:40 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-01 11:52 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-01 21:05 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-02 11:08 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 4:47 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 5:41 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-30 15:19 ` [PATCH v3 seccomp 3/5] seccomp/cache: Lookup syscall allowlist for fast path YiFei Zhu
2020-09-30 21:32 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-09 0:17 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 5:35 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-30 15:19 ` [PATCH v3 seccomp 4/5] selftests/seccomp: Compare bitmap vs filter overhead YiFei Zhu
2020-09-30 15:19 ` [PATCH v3 seccomp 5/5] seccomp/cache: Report cache data through /proc/pid/seccomp_cache YiFei Zhu
2020-09-30 22:00 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-30 23:12 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-01 12:06 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-01 16:05 ` Jann Horn
2020-10-01 16:18 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-09-30 22:59 ` Kees Cook
2020-09-30 23:08 ` Jann Horn
2020-09-30 23:21 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-09 17:14 ` [PATCH v4 seccomp 0/5] seccomp: Add bitmap cache of constant allow filter results YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 17:14 ` [PATCH v4 seccomp 1/5] seccomp/cache: Lookup syscall allowlist bitmap for fast path YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 21:30 ` Jann Horn
2020-10-09 23:18 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-09 17:14 ` [PATCH v4 seccomp 2/5] seccomp/cache: Add "emulator" to check if filter is constant allow YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 21:30 ` Jann Horn
2020-10-09 22:47 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-09 17:14 ` [PATCH v4 seccomp 3/5] x86: Enable seccomp architecture tracking YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 17:25 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-10-09 18:32 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 20:59 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-10-09 17:14 ` [PATCH v4 seccomp 4/5] selftests/seccomp: Compare bitmap vs filter overhead YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 17:14 ` [PATCH v4 seccomp 5/5] seccomp/cache: Report cache data through /proc/pid/seccomp_cache YiFei Zhu
2020-10-09 21:45 ` Jann Horn
2020-10-09 23:14 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-10 13:26 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-12 22:57 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-13 0:31 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-22 20:52 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-22 22:32 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-22 23:40 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-10-24 2:51 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-30 12:18 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-11-03 13:00 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-11-04 0:29 ` Kees Cook
2020-11-04 11:40 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-11-04 18:57 ` Kees Cook
2020-10-11 15:47 ` [PATCH v5 seccomp 0/5]seccomp: Add bitmap cache of constant allow filter results YiFei Zhu
2020-10-11 15:47 ` [PATCH v5 seccomp 1/5] seccomp/cache: Lookup syscall allowlist bitmap for fast path YiFei Zhu
2020-10-12 6:42 ` Jann Horn
2020-10-11 15:47 ` [PATCH v5 seccomp 2/5] seccomp/cache: Add "emulator" to check if filter is constant allow YiFei Zhu
2020-10-12 6:46 ` Jann Horn
2020-10-11 15:47 ` [PATCH v5 seccomp 3/5] x86: Enable seccomp architecture tracking YiFei Zhu
2020-10-11 15:47 ` [PATCH v5 seccomp 4/5] selftests/seccomp: Compare bitmap vs filter overhead YiFei Zhu
2020-10-11 15:47 ` [PATCH v5 seccomp 5/5] seccomp/cache: Report cache data through /proc/pid/seccomp_cache YiFei Zhu
2020-10-12 6:49 ` Jann Horn
2020-12-17 12:14 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-12-17 18:34 ` YiFei Zhu
2020-12-18 12:35 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2020-10-27 19:14 ` [PATCH v5 seccomp 0/5]seccomp: Add bitmap cache of constant allow filter results Kees Cook
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