From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769A0C56202 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 22:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FF72223F for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 22:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="f/bzZU57" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727448AbgKLWhS (ORCPT ); Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:37:18 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([216.205.24.124]:22401 "EHLO us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727796AbgKLWgf (ORCPT ); Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:36:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1605220593; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=XhgHn2WJtZkLF+ApGVLkt0XduVBcSMTHxp7BqhQwEiI=; b=f/bzZU57CajRBXsk7gDkfhI7QcXO6yMiOP/vFDlToE+4UzOTexVdHztAAOyqO7RsTa4mat o2sK4kEXuhgmZ/Oi9+hxXzLwUdoQOUySj4eqZHGCUQMcyH/8bFvnhc3sQ2fV8zPl0yoagy eV7kgFx+Zap5N4iH5qmyKE1T71QF6DA= Received: from mail-wr1-f72.google.com (mail-wr1-f72.google.com [209.85.221.72]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-57-r1qUbudFODe-NuL-p8nwAg-1; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:36:31 -0500 X-MC-Unique: r1qUbudFODe-NuL-p8nwAg-1 Received: by mail-wr1-f72.google.com with SMTP id d8so2683471wrr.10 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 14:36:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=XhgHn2WJtZkLF+ApGVLkt0XduVBcSMTHxp7BqhQwEiI=; b=aoAfRuFSU9geLdCfbR5/5KxPfVmXgrk+2WM8tM5vDphAJCmWJZ+bs6R6r4ZpzU9KVz X6pQj5rp+9q1P9GRGBWl9bgCpEh6NXYzZMv9GFQAeBRJ0e2aRU/C/2oet7pKhF6wizSE otSPvkA4J11tvzfh3HNNXgWIvgCKDbS59SEDO/8zMzeHKxMdb+C1YGGHV8gDrFZQeopa 6UHcWcSWRuFwWQtNBZKmbijG1J2rX/+GYud6oId5mBajU+S4cJJOLehAAmyEosXDLmpa 6eExBdNrgXKd7SWZRTP0IHjzN9CWA+8jaoH2P0+vgG9LHxR0434Qy40oYpR3yQWTQjZW fEHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532jbNzu8I0SiK5DANFgLCTHc9DaE/UDiPe8c0mY0UVBkLaBXMm1 iu/Hddiu5oO4ruMUO+mlajwTTvinKK4MhI+RETABh8SZYEL6aR3Z76UwGwNIyKwynVPHaJoIoNv C/UFyBycxSOi5 X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5643:: with SMTP id j3mr2011644wrw.43.1605220589955; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 14:36:29 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw5B1dz4Y5fMvfHGo7//UMwx0YvrMv+zb6yd42EN8mu+BvkRseRV5thcGxkng82q5Gf+Ffp3w== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5643:: with SMTP id j3mr2011535wrw.43.1605220588373; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 14:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk ([2a0c:4d80:42:443::2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f13sm3157112wrq.78.2020.11.12.14.36.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 12 Nov 2020 14:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EDE5A1833E9; Thu, 12 Nov 2020 23:36:25 +0100 (CET) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Daniel Borkmann , Alexei Starovoitov , David Ahern Cc: Stephen Hemminger , Andrii Nakryiko , Jiri Benc , Edward Cree , Hangbin Liu , Alexei Starovoitov , Martin KaFai Lau , Song Liu , Yonghong Song , David Miller , Jesper Dangaard Brouer , Networking , bpf , Andrii Nakryiko Subject: Re: [PATCHv3 iproute2-next 0/5] iproute2: add libbpf support In-Reply-To: <321a2728-7a43-4a48-fe97-dab45b76e6fb@iogearbox.net> References: <07f149f6-f8ac-96b9-350d-b289ef16d82f@solarflare.com> <20201106094425.5cc49609@redhat.com> <20201106152537.53737086@hermes.local> <45d88ca7-b22a-a117-5743-b965ccd0db35@gmail.com> <20201109014515.rxz3uppztndbt33k@ast-mbp> <14c9e6da-e764-2e2c-bbbb-bc95992ed258@gmail.com> <20201111004749.r37tqrhskrcxjhhx@ast-mbp> <874klwcg1p.fsf@toke.dk> <321a2728-7a43-4a48-fe97-dab45b76e6fb@iogearbox.net> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 23:36:25 +0100 Message-ID: <871rgy8aom.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: bpf@vger.kernel.org Daniel Borkmann writes: >> Besides, for the entire history of BPF support in iproute2 so far, the >> benefit has come from all the features that libbpf has just started >> automatically supporting on load (BTF, etc), so users would have >> benefited from automatic library updates had it *not* been vendored in. > > Not really. What you imply here is that we're living in a perfect > world and that all distros follow suite and i) add libbpf dependency > to their official iproute2 package, ii) upgrade iproute2 package along > with new kernel releases and iii) upgrade libbpf along with it so that > users are able to develop BPF programs against the feature set that > the kernel offers (as intended). These are a lot of moving parts to > get right, and as I pointed out earlier in the conversation, it took > major distros 2 years to get their act together to officially include > bpftool as a package - I'm not making this up, and this sort of pace > is simply not sustainable. It's also not clear whether distros will > get point iii) correct. I totally get that you've been frustrated with the distro adoption and packaging of BPF-related tools. And rightfully so. I just don't think that the answer to this is to try to work around distros, but rather to work with them to get things right. I'm quite happy to take a shot at getting a cross-distro effort going in this space; really, having well-supported BPF tooling ought to be in everyone's interest! -Toke