From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (lindbergh.monkeyblade.net [23.128.96.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D74F34CE7 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 19:56:20 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=obs-cr.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.i=@obs-cr.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.b="VETaA6jD" Received: from mail-vs1-xe31.google.com (mail-vs1-xe31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e31]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DA9AE7 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2023 11:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe31.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-45da9f949aaso1665207137.2 for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:56:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=obs-cr.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1699386978; x=1699991778; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=xjOaWaxhB0I1LfMyCOktuLSgP+foQf9G3E2ZX7OHvsY=; b=VETaA6jDP5/X44uCvHd/04NxHnVMYsXUGIQnuz+mjXY4PqQidWqWznduFhBvZvWin/ FLVR+dJjKLLSmJu9lGkbW0eI6ZLpE7hEdpp4LJ4Hovk1Rna3kz3KIu6uGFzYx7nQuieR wvDRtzS3srWLK6NgIzOg1Sh0FTQUV1VX5lKUk2/mAZuCnzTESZYM/58m74/4ZAGmS7DX yfTdHNPhKcSv8I4tKv0MIgEBA1mFgPJDqb84nvtI8GWA6aYTPzy8hJDuFDRHLtoPzUBt yB3ybKAXA4k9CN7XUhNVHc832BmXP6U+QtIA8XNEcWBCK2/rrH+aGrq+iwgjnUGrF590 GtUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699386978; x=1699991778; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xjOaWaxhB0I1LfMyCOktuLSgP+foQf9G3E2ZX7OHvsY=; b=hlG5Jh7JwKBp5JCMtzzWuv4c7RVv9LfNqpU/nt77T42LBercQp6kbgTNuvsNe9g0FH 6LOsefx9ikcWlWhZQMN6XYXx9II7nuqlB75zXzV3wWomGAXwQSsW18sqXl1048/Jio8W hZhrXB/wOGn2bkYQclwt6CTibQapRkat0KSwOC/XGY6wiO9zl6sHjVxEsyl9qok7Murc VDD8sQ+EBKdrHsDBDFdoQYSSslB8SwUyV5wTvcEkVELhCX7x81D5bPax2Jw8Qeg77/t9 gP9cjJRYldgWHsaLl/dT+nNHKP6oH/Q9tbdmxTBz99cbx4G5awhp2bgd7zD485+UTdfY Pehg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxfRds7wl3+KxGtgMdO9Aq8v3mQKBN238mWKlcHO4MMIj6q3hdl 2MBLTV6Frl0PfQFygkfe9HyQEyRscHtnuFjMAhBWZJu04io8LSHg X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGR4J2p0Gc8io1ZhH7XE5wrcbH80Sc616yItZ7zPJr0mc3fF9JlJKaGh2rze/GRKN/n2C5Ml9nAgWEHUgWBLWA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:aca:b0:45f:4ba5:1c4e with SMTP id m10-20020a0561020aca00b0045f4ba51c4emr4303563vsh.35.1699386978430; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: bpf@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20231103212024.327833-1-hawkinsw@obs.cr> In-Reply-To: From: Will Hawkins Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 14:56:04 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Bpf] [PATCH v3] bpf, docs: Add additional ABI working draft base text To: Alexei Starovoitov Cc: bpf@ietf.org, bpf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 3:38=E2=80=AFAM Alexei Starovoitov wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 4:17=E2=80=AFPM Will Hawkins wro= te: > > > > On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 4:51=E2=80=AFAM Alexei Starovoitov > > wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 2:20=E2=80=AFPM Will Hawkins = wrote: > > > > + > > > > +The ABI is specified in two parts: a generic part and a processor-= specific part. > > > > +A pairing of generic ABI with the processor-specific ABI for a cer= tain > > > > +instantiation of a BPF machine represents a complete binary interf= ace for BPF > > > > +programs executing on that machine. > > > > + > > > > +This document is the generic ABI and specifies the parameters and = behavior > > > > +common to all instantiations of BPF machines. In addition, it defi= nes the > > > > +details that must be specified by each processor-specific ABI. > > > > + > > > > +These psABIs are the second part of the ABI. Each instantiation of= a BPF > > > > +machine must describe the mechanism through which binary interface > > > > +compatibility is maintained with respect to the issues highlighted= by this > > > > +document. However, the details that must be defined by a psABI are= a minimum -- > > > > +a psABI may specify additional requirements for binary interface c= ompatibility > > > > +on a platform. > > > > > > I don't understand what you are trying to say in the above. > > > In my mind there is only one BPF psABI and it doesn't have > > > generic and processor parts. There is only one "processor". > > > BPF is such a processor. > > > > What I was trying to say was that the document here describes a > > generic ABI. In this document there will be areas that are specific to > > different implementations and those would be considered processor > > specific. In other words, the ubpf runtime could define those things > > differently than the rbpf runtime which, in turn, could define those > > things differently than the kernel's implementation. > > I see what you mean. There is only one BPF psABI. There cannot be two. > ubpf can decide not to follow it, but it could only mean that > it's non conformant and not compatible. Okay. That was not how I was structuring the ABI. I thought we had decided that, as the document said, an instantiation of a machine had to 1. meet the gABI 2. specify its requirements vis a vis the psABI 3. (optionally) describe other requirements. If that is not what we decided then we will have to restructure the documen= t. 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Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:56:18 -0800 (PST) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: bpf@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20231103212024.327833-1-hawkinsw@obs.cr> In-Reply-To: From: Will Hawkins Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 14:56:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: Alexei Starovoitov Cc: bpf@ietf.org, bpf Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Bpf] [PATCH v3] bpf, docs: Add additional ABI working draft base text X-BeenThere: bpf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of BPF/eBPF standardization efforts within the IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: bpf-bounces@ietf.org Sender: "Bpf" Message-ID: <20231107195604.xwIDvGujK-IXsuvJtOnuomWGvGSlb-yQf3Q4NYywcAA@z> T24gTW9uLCBOb3YgNiwgMjAyMyBhdCAzOjM44oCvQU0gQWxleGVpIFN0YXJvdm9pdG92CjxhbGV4 ZWkuc3Rhcm92b2l0b3ZAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPgo+IE9uIFN1biwgTm92IDUsIDIwMjMg YXQgNDoxN+KAr1BNIFdpbGwgSGF3a2lucyA8aGF3a2luc3dAb2JzLmNyPiB3cm90ZToKPiA+Cj4g PiBPbiBTdW4sIE5vdiA1LCAyMDIzIGF0IDQ6NTHigK9BTSBBbGV4ZWkgU3Rhcm92b2l0b3YKPiA+ IDxhbGV4ZWkuc3Rhcm92b2l0b3ZAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gT24gRnJp LCBOb3YgMywgMjAyMyBhdCAyOjIw4oCvUE0gV2lsbCBIYXdraW5zIDxoYXdraW5zd0BvYnMuY3I+ IHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gPiA+ICsKPiA+ID4gPiArVGhlIEFCSSBpcyBzcGVjaWZpZWQgaW4gdHdvIHBh cnRzOiBhIGdlbmVyaWMgcGFydCBhbmQgYSBwcm9jZXNzb3Itc3BlY2lmaWMgcGFydC4KPiA+ID4g PiArQSBwYWlyaW5nIG9mIGdlbmVyaWMgQUJJIHdpdGggdGhlIHByb2Nlc3Nvci1zcGVjaWZpYyBB QkkgZm9yIGEgY2VydGFpbgo+ID4gPiA+ICtpbnN0YW50aWF0aW9uIG9mIGEgQlBGIG1hY2hpbmUg cmVwcmVzZW50cyBhIGNvbXBsZXRlIGJpbmFyeSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgZm9yIEJQRgo+ID4gPiA+ICtw cm9ncmFtcyBleGVjdXRpbmcgb24gdGhhdCBtYWNoaW5lLgo+ID4gPiA+ICsKPiA+ID4gPiArVGhp cyBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyB0aGUgZ2VuZXJpYyBBQkkgYW5kIHNwZWNpZmllcyB0aGUgcGFyYW1ldGVy cyBhbmQgYmVoYXZpb3IKPiA+ID4gPiArY29tbW9uIHRvIGFsbCBpbnN0YW50aWF0aW9ucyBvZiBC UEYgbWFjaGluZXMuIEluIGFkZGl0aW9uLCBpdCBkZWZpbmVzIHRoZQo+ID4gPiA+ICtkZXRhaWxz IHRoYXQgbXVzdCBiZSBzcGVjaWZpZWQgYnkgZWFjaCBwcm9jZXNzb3Itc3BlY2lmaWMgQUJJLgo+ ID4gPiA+ICsKPiA+ID4gPiArVGhlc2UgcHNBQklzIGFyZSB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhl IEFCSS4gRWFjaCBpbnN0YW50aWF0aW9uIG9mIGEgQlBGCj4gPiA+ID4gK21hY2hpbmUgbXVzdCBk ZXNjcmliZSB0aGUgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHRocm91Z2ggd2hpY2ggYmluYXJ5IGludGVyZmFjZQo+ID4g PiA+ICtjb21wYXRpYmlsaXR5IGlzIG1haW50YWluZWQgd2l0aCByZXNwZWN0IHRvIHRoZSBpc3N1 ZXMgaGlnaGxpZ2h0ZWQgYnkgdGhpcwo+ID4gPiA+ICtkb2N1bWVudC4gSG93ZXZlciwgdGhlIGRl dGFpbHMgdGhhdCBtdXN0IGJlIGRlZmluZWQgYnkgYSBwc0FCSSBhcmUgYSBtaW5pbXVtIC0tCj4g PiA+ID4gK2EgcHNBQkkgbWF5IHNwZWNpZnkgYWRkaXRpb25hbCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZm9yIGJp bmFyeSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0eQo+ID4gPiA+ICtvbiBhIHBsYXRmb3JtLgo+ID4g Pgo+ID4gPiBJIGRvbid0IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgd2hhdCB5b3UgYXJlIHRyeWluZyB0byBzYXkgaW4g dGhlIGFib3ZlLgo+ID4gPiBJbiBteSBtaW5kIHRoZXJlIGlzIG9ubHkgb25lIEJQRiBwc0FCSSBh bmQgaXQgZG9lc24ndCBoYXZlCj4gPiA+IGdlbmVyaWMgYW5kIHByb2Nlc3NvciBwYXJ0cy4gVGhl cmUgaXMgb25seSBvbmUgInByb2Nlc3NvciIuCj4gPiA+IEJQRiBpcyBzdWNoIGEgcHJvY2Vzc29y Lgo+ID4KPiA+IFdoYXQgSSB3YXMgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHNheSB3YXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQg aGVyZSBkZXNjcmliZXMgYQo+ID4gZ2VuZXJpYyBBQkkuIEluIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgdGhlcmUg d2lsbCBiZSBhcmVhcyB0aGF0IGFyZSBzcGVjaWZpYyB0bwo+ID4gZGlmZmVyZW50IGltcGxlbWVu dGF0aW9ucyBhbmQgdGhvc2Ugd291bGQgYmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBwcm9jZXNzb3IKPiA+IHNwZWNp ZmljLiBJbiBvdGhlciB3b3JkcywgdGhlIHVicGYgcnVudGltZSBjb3VsZCBkZWZpbmUgdGhvc2Ug dGhpbmdzCj4gPiBkaWZmZXJlbnRseSB0aGFuIHRoZSByYnBmIHJ1bnRpbWUgd2hpY2gsIGluIHR1 cm4sIGNvdWxkIGRlZmluZSB0aG9zZQo+ID4gdGhpbmdzIGRpZmZlcmVudGx5IHRoYW4gdGhlIGtl cm5lbCdzIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uLgo+Cj4gSSBzZWUgd2hhdCB5b3UgbWVhbi4gVGhlcmUgaXMg b25seSBvbmUgQlBGIHBzQUJJLiBUaGVyZSBjYW5ub3QgYmUgdHdvLgo+IHVicGYgY2FuIGRlY2lk ZSBub3QgdG8gZm9sbG93IGl0LCBidXQgaXQgY291bGQgb25seSBtZWFuIHRoYXQKPiBpdCdzIG5v biBjb25mb3JtYW50IGFuZCBub3QgY29tcGF0aWJsZS4KCk9rYXkuIFRoYXQgd2FzIG5vdCBob3cg SSB3YXMgc3RydWN0dXJpbmcgdGhlIEFCSS4gSSB0aG91Z2h0IHdlIGhhZApkZWNpZGVkIHRoYXQs IGFzIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBzYWlkLCBhbiBpbnN0YW50aWF0aW9uIG9mIGEgbWFjaGluZSBoYWQK dG8KCjEuIG1lZXQgdGhlIGdBQkkKMi4gc3BlY2lmeSBpdHMgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIHZpcyBhIHZp cyB0aGUgcHNBQkkKMy4gKG9wdGlvbmFsbHkpIGRlc2NyaWJlIG90aGVyIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cy4K CklmIHRoYXQgaXMgbm90IHdoYXQgd2UgZGVjaWRlZCB0aGVuIHdlIHdpbGwgaGF2ZSB0byByZXN0 cnVjdHVyZSB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQuCgpXaWxsCgotLSAKQnBmIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApCcGZAaWV0 Zi5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9icGYK