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[24.9.64.241]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g19sm1853366otq.72.2020.05.28.12.34.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 May 2020 12:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [PATCH] selftests/bpf: split -extras target to -static and -gen To: Yauheni Kaliuta Cc: Alexei Starovoitov , Greg KH , Jiri Benc , shuah , Andrii Nakryiko , bpf , Jiri Olsa , Andrii Nakryiko , Daniel Borkmann , "open list:KERNEL SELFTEST FRAMEWORK" , skhan@linuxfoundation.org References: <20200528100557.20489f04@redhat.com> <20200528105631.GE3115014@kroah.com> <20200528161437.x3e2ddxmj6nlhvv7@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <49931ed9-da92-4b32-ba54-aeba33166bdd@linuxfoundation.org> From: Shuah Khan Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 13:34:33 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: bpf-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: bpf@vger.kernel.org On 5/28/20 1:20 PM, Yauheni Kaliuta wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 10:09 PM Shuah Khan wrote: >> >> On 5/28/20 11:10 AM, Yauheni Kaliuta wrote: >>> Hi, Alexei, >>> >>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:14 PM Alexei Starovoitov >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:56:31PM +0200, Greg KH wrote: >>>>> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 10:05:57AM +0200, Jiri Benc wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 27 May 2020 15:23:13 -0700, Alexei Starovoitov wrote: >>>>>>> I prefer to keep selftests/bpf install broken. >>>>>>> This forced marriage between kselftests and selftests/bpf >>>>>>> never worked well. I think it's a time to free them up from each other. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alexei, it would be great if you could cooperate with other people >>>>>> instead of pushing your own way. The selftests infrastructure was put >>>>>> to the kernel to have one place for testing. Inventing yet another way >>>>>> to add tests does not help anyone. You don't own the kernel. We're >>>>>> community, we should cooperate. >>>>> >>>>> I agree, we rely on the infrastructure of the kselftests framework so >>>>> that testing systems do not have to create "custom" frameworks to handle >>>>> all of the individual variants that could easily crop up here. >>>>> >>>>> Let's keep it easy for people to run and use these tests, to not do so >>>>> is to ensure that they are not used, which is the exact opposite goal of >>>>> creating tests. >>>> >>>> Greg, >>>> >>>> It is easy for people (bpf developers) to run and use the tests. >>>> Every developer runs them before submitting patches. >>>> New tests is a hard requirement for any new features. >>>> Maintainers run them for every push. >>>> >>>> What I was and will push back hard is when other people (not bpf developers) >>>> come back with an excuse that some CI system has a hard time running these >>>> tests. It's the problem of weak CI. That CI needs to be fixed. Not the tests. >>>> The example of this is that we already have github/libbpf CI that runs >>>> selftests/bpf just fine. Anyone who wants to do another CI are welcome to copy >>>> paste what already works instead of burdening people (bpf developers) who run >>>> and use existing tests. I frankly have no sympathy to folks who put their own >>>> interest of their CI development in front of bpf community of developers. >>>> The main job of CI is to help developers and maintainers. >>>> Where helping means to not impose new dumb rules on developers because CI >>>> framework is dumb. Fix CI instead. >>>> >>> >>> Any good reason why bpf selftests, residing under selftests/, should >>> be an exception? >>> "Breakages" is not, breakages are fixable. >>> >> >> Let's not talk about moving tests. I don't want to discuss that until >> we are all on the same page on what is the problem in adding install >> support to bpf Makefile. >> >> It is possible that there is a misunderstanding that bpf maintainer >> and developer workflow will change. Which is definitely not needed. >> If this patch series requires it, it isn't correct and needs to be >> reworked. > > patch series does not change it. Running bpf tests in-place is one of > my own usecases, I'm not going to break it :) Great. I wasn't suggesting you would. So there is no need for the concern that bpf developer/maintainer workflow will have to change to add install support. > The series tried to fix what does not work (install and build in > $(OUTPUT) directory) but exists in the code. I'll include you in Cc > for the respin(s) if you are interested. Please do. > > The discussion is pretty much not connected to the patchset, but about > bpf selftests and the infra in general. > Yeah. We have to get a better understanding and be on the same page on this anyway. thanks, -- Shuah