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From: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>
To: Vinod Koul <vkoul@kernel.org>
Cc: Peter Ujfalusi <peter.ujfalusi@ti.com>,
	dmaengine@vger.kernel.org, Michal Simek <michal.simek@xilinx.com>,
	Hyun Kwon <hyun.kwon@xilinx.com>,
	Tejas Upadhyay <tejasu@xilinx.com>,
	Satish Kumar Nagireddy <SATISHNA@xilinx.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 2/6] dmaengine: Add interleaved cyclic transaction type
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 18:30:11 +0200
Message-ID: <20200226163011.GE4770@pendragon.ideasonboard.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200219092514.GG2618@vkoul-mobl>

Hi Vinod,

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 02:55:14PM +0530, Vinod Koul wrote:
> On 17-02-20, 12:00, Peter Ujfalusi wrote:
> > On 14/02/2020 18.22, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> >>>> It does, but I really wonder why we need a new terminate operation that
> >>>> would terminate a single transfer. If we call issue_pending at step B.3,
> >>>> when the new txn submitted, we can terminate the current transfer at the
> >>>> point. It changes the semantics of issue_pending, but only for cyclic
> >>>> transfers (this whole discussions it only about cyclic transfers). As a
> >>>> cyclic transfer will be repeated forever until terminated, there's no
> >>>> use case for issuing a new transfer without terminating the one in
> >>>> progress. I thus don't think we need a new terminate operation: the only
> >>>> thing that makes sense to do when submitting a new cyclic transfer is to
> >>>> terminate the current one and switch to the new one, and we already have
> >>>> all the APIs we need to enable this behaviour.
> >>>
> >>> The issue_pending() is a NOP when engine is already running.
> >> 
> >> That's not totally right. issue_pending() still moves submitted but not
> >> issued transactions from the submitted queue to the issued queue. The
> >> DMA engine only considers the issued queue, so issue_pending()
> >> essentially tells the DMA engine to consider the submitted transaction
> >> for processing after the already issued transactions complete (in the
> >> non-cyclic case).
> > 
> > Vinod's point is for the cyclic case at the current state. It is NOP
> > essentially as we don't have way to not kill the whole channel.
> 
> Or IOW there is no descriptor movement to hardware..
> 
> > Just a sidenote: it is not even that clean cut for slave transfers
> > either as the slave_config must _not_ change between the issued
> > transfers. Iow, you can not switch between 16bit and 32bit word lengths
> > with some DMA. EDMA, sDMA can do that, but UDMA can not for example...
> > 
> >>> The design of APIs is that we submit a txn to pending_list and then the
> >>> pending_list is started when issue_pending() is called.
> >>> Or if the engine is already running, it will take next txn from
> >>> pending_list() when current txn completes.
> >>>
> >>> The only consideration here in this case is that the cyclic txn never
> >>> completes. Do we really treat a new txn submission as an 'indication' of
> >>> completeness? That is indeed a point to ponder upon.
> >> 
> >> The reason why I think we should is two-fold:
> >> 
> >> 1. I believe it's semantically aligned with the existing behaviour of
> >> issue_pending(). As explained above, the operation tells the DMA engine
> >> to consider submitted transactions for processing when the current (and
> >> other issued) transactions complete. If we extend the definition of
> >> complete to cover cyclic transactions, I think it's a good match.
> > 
> > We will end up with different behavior between cyclic and non cyclic
> > transfers and the new behavior should be somehow supported by existing
> > drivers.
> > Yes, issue_pending is moving the submitted tx to the issued queue to be
> > executed on HW when the current transfer finished.
> > We only needed this for non cyclic uses so far. Some DMA hw can replace
> > the current transfer with a new one (re-trigger to fetch the new
> > configuration, like your's), but some can not (none of the system DMAs
> > on TI platforms can).
> > If we say that this is the behavior the DMA drivers must follow then we
> > will have non compliant DMA drivers. You can not move simply to other
> > DMA or can not create generic DMA code shared by drivers.
> 
> That is very important point for API. We want no implicit behaviour, so
> if we want an behaviour let us do that explicitly.

As I've just explained in my reply to Peter, there's nothing implicit in
my proposal :-) It's however missing a flag to report if the DMA engine
driver supports this feature, put apart from that, it makes the API
*more* consistent by making issue_pending() cover *all* transfer types
with the *same* semantics.

> >> 2. There's really nothing else we could do with cyclic transactions.
> >> They never complete today and have to be terminated manually with
> >> terminate_all(). Using issue_pending() to move to a next cyclic
> >> transaction doesn't change the existing behaviour by replacing a useful
> >> (and used) feature, as issue_pending() is currently a no-op for cyclic
> >> transactions. The newly issued transaction is never considered, and
> >> calling terminate_all() will cancel the issued transactions. By
> >> extending the behaviour of issue_pending(), we're making a new use case
> >> possible, without restricting any other feature, and without "stealing"
> >> issue_pending() and preventing it from implementing another useful
> >> behaviour.
> > 
> > But at the same time we make existing drivers non compliant...
> > 
> > Imo a new callback to 'kill' / 'terminate' / 'replace' / 'abort' an
> > issued cookie would be cleaner.
> > 
> > cookie1 = dmaengine_issue_pending();
> > // will start the transfer
> > cookie2 = dmaengine_issue_pending();
> > // cookie1 still runs, cookie2 is waiting to be executed
> > dmaengine_abort_tx(chan);
> > // will kill cookie1 and executes cookie2
> 
> Right and we need a kill mode which kills the cookie1 at the end of
> transfer (conditional to hw supporting that)
> 
> I think it should be generic API and usable in both the cyclic and
> non-cyclic case

I have no issue with an API that can abort ongoing transfers without
killing the whole queue of pending transfers, but that's not what I'm
after, it's not my use case. Again, as explained in my reply to Peter,
I'm not looking for a way to abort a transfer immediately, but to move
to the next transfer at the end of the current one. It's very different,
and the DMA engine API already supports this for all transfers but
cyclic transfers. I'd go as far as saying that my proposal is fixing a
bug in the current implementation :-)

> > dmaengine_abort_tx() could take a cookie as parameter if we wish, so you
> > can say selectively which issued tx you want to remove, if it is the
> > running one, then stop it and move to the next one.
> > In place of the cookie parameter a 0 could imply that I don't know the
> > cookie, but kill the running one.
> > 
> > We would preserve what issue_pending does atm and would give us a
> > generic flow of how other drivers should handle such cases.
> > 
> > Note that this is not only useful for cyclic cases. Any driver which
> > currently uses brute-force termination can be upgraded.
> > Prime example is UART RX. We issue an RX buffer to receive data, but it
> > is not guarantied that the remote will send data which would fill the
> > buffer and we hit a timeout waiting. We could issue the next buffer and
> > kill the stale transfer to reclaim the received data.
> > 
> > I think this can be even implemented for DMAs which can not do the same
> > thing as your DMA can.
> > 
> >> In a nutshell, an important reason why I like using issue_pending() for
> >> this purpose is because it makes cyclic and non-cyclic transactions
> >> behave more similarly, which I think is good from an API consistency
> >> point of view.
> >> 
> >>> Also, we need to keep in mind that the dmaengine wont stop a cyclic
> >>> txn. It would be running and start next transfer (in this case do
> >>> from start) while it also gives you an interrupt. Here we would be
> >>> required to stop it and then start a new one...
> >> 
> >> We wouldn't be required to stop it in the middle, the expected behaviour
> >> is for the DMA engine to complete the cyclic transaction until the end
> >> of the cycle and then replace it by the new one. That's exactly what
> >> happens for non-cyclic transactions when you call issue_pending(), which
> >> makes me like this solution.
> > 
> > Right, so we have two different use cases. Replace the current transfers
> > with the next issued one and abort the current transfer now and arm the
> > next issued one.
> > dmaengine_abort_tx(chan, cookie, forced) ?
> > forced == false: replace it at cyclic boundary
> > forced == true: right away (as HW allows), do not wait for cyclic round
> > 
> >>> Or perhaps remove the cyclic setting from the txn when a new one
> >>> arrives and that behaviour IMO is controller dependent, not sure if
> >>> all controllers support it..
> >> 
> >> At the very least I would assume controllers to be able to stop a cyclic
> >> transaction forcefully, otherwise terminate_all() could never be
> >> implemented. This may not lead to a gracefully switch from one cyclic
> >> transaction to another one if the hardware doesn't allow doing so. In
> >> that case I think tx_submit() could return an error, or we could turn
> >> issue_pending() into an int operation to signal the error. Note that
> >> there's no need to mass-patch drivers here, if a DMA engine client
> >> issues a second cyclic transaction while one is in progress, the second
> >> transaction won't be considered today. Signalling an error is in my
> >> opinion a useful feature, but not doing so in DMA engine drivers can't
> >> be a regression. We could also add a flag to tell whether this mode of
> >> operation is supported.
> > 
> > My problems is that it is changing the behavior of issue_pending() for
> > cyclic. If we document this than all existing DMA drivers are broken
> > (not complaint with the API documentation) as they don't do this.
> > 
> > 
> >>>>> That would be a clean way to handle it. We were missing this API for a
> >>>>> long time to be able to cancel the ongoing transfer (whether it is
> >>>>> cyclic or slave_sg, or memcpy) and move to the next one if there is one
> >>>>> pending.
> >>>>
> >>>> Note that this new terminate API wouldn't terminate the ongoing transfer
> >>>> immediately, it would complete first, until the end of the cycle for
> >>>> cyclic transfers, and until the end of the whole transfer otherwise.
> >>>> This new operation would thus essentially be a no-op for non-cyclic
> >>>> transfers. I don't see how it would help :-) Do you have any particular
> >>>> use case in mind ?
> >>>
> >>> Yeah that is something more to think about. Do we really abort here or
> >>> wait for the txn to complete. I think Peter needs the former and your
> >>> falls in the latter category
> >> 
> >> I definitely need the latter, otherwise the display will flicker (or
> >> completely misoperate) every time a new frame is displayed, which isn't
> >> a good idea :-)
> > 
> > Sure, and it is a great feature.
> > 
> >> I'm not sure about Peter's use cases, but it seems to me
> >> that aborting a transaction immediately is racy in most cases, unless
> >> the DMA engine supports byte-level residue reporting.
> > 
> > Sort of yes. With EDMA, sDMA I can just kill the channel and set up a
> > new one right away.
> > UDMA on the other hand is not that forgiving... I would need to kill the
> > channel, wait for the termination to complete, reconfigure the channel
> > and execute the new transfer.
> > 
> > But with a separate callback API at least there will be an entry point
> > when this can be initiated and handled.
> > Fwiw, I think it should be simple to add this functionality to them, the
> > code is kind of handling it in other parts, but implementing it in the
> > issue_pending() is not really a clean solution.
> > 
> > In a channel you can run slave_sg transfers followed by cyclic if you
> > wish. A slave channel is what it is, slave channel which can be capable
> > to execute slave_sg and/or cyclic (and/or interleaved).
> > If issue_pending() is to take care then we need to check if the current
> > transfer is cyclic or not and decide based on that.
> > 
> > With a separate callback we in the DMA driver just need to do what the
> > client is asking for and no need to think.
> > 
> >> One non-intrusive
> >> option would be to add a flag to signal that a newly issued transaction
> >> should interrupt the current transaction immediately.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

  reply index

Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-01-23  2:29 [PATCH v3 0/6] dma: Add Xilinx ZynqMP DPDMA driver Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 1/6] dt: bindings: dma: xilinx: dpdma: DT bindings for Xilinx DPDMA Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 2/6] dmaengine: Add interleaved cyclic transaction type Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  8:03   ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-23  8:43     ` Vinod Koul
2020-01-23  8:51       ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-23 12:23         ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-24  6:10           ` Vinod Koul
2020-01-24  8:50             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-10 14:06               ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-13 13:29                 ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-13 13:48                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-13 14:07                     ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-13 14:15                       ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-02-13 16:52                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-14  4:23                           ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-14 16:22                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-17 10:00                               ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-02-19  9:25                                 ` Vinod Koul
2020-02-26 16:30                                   ` Laurent Pinchart [this message]
2020-03-02  3:47                                     ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-02  7:37                                       ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-03  4:32                                         ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-03 19:22                                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-04  5:13                                             ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-04  8:01                                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-04 15:37                                                 ` Vinod Koul
2020-03-04 16:00                                                   ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-04 16:24                                                     ` Vinod Koul
     [not found]                                                       ` <20200311155248.GA4772@pendragon.ideasonboard.com>
2020-03-18 15:14                                                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-25 16:00                                                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-26  7:02                                                         ` Vinod Koul
2020-04-08 17:00                                                           ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-04-15 15:12                                                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-06 14:49                                                     ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-03-11 23:15                                                       ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-02-26 16:24                                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-03-02  3:42                                   ` Vinod Koul
2020-01-24  7:20           ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-24  7:38             ` Peter Ujfalusi
2020-01-24  8:58               ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-24  8:56             ` Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 3/6] dmaengine: virt-dma: Use lockdep to check locking requirements Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 4/6] dmaengine: xilinx: dpdma: Add the Xilinx DisplayPort DMA engine driver Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 5/6] dmaengine: xilinx: dpdma: Add debugfs support Laurent Pinchart
2020-01-23  2:29 ` [PATCH v3 6/6] arm64: dts: zynqmp: Add DPDMA node Laurent Pinchart

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