From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B96208EB for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 19:20:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1733064AbeHFVbI convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:31:08 -0400 Received: from elephants.elehost.com ([216.66.27.132]:39121 "EHLO elephants.elehost.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1732294AbeHFVbH (ORCPT ); Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:31:07 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at elehost.com Received: from gnash (CPE00fc8d49d843-CM00fc8d49d840.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.229.179.249]) (authenticated bits=0) by elephants.elehost.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w76JKYDK057207 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 6 Aug 2018 15:20:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rsbecker@nexbridge.com) From: "Randall S. Becker" To: "=?utf-8?Q?'=C3=86var_Arnfj=C3=B6r=C3=B0_Bjarmason'?=" Cc: "'Junio C Hamano'" , "'Duy Nguyen'" , "'Jonathan Nieder'" , "'Stefan Beller'" , "'Git Mailing List'" , , "'Han-Wen Nienhuys'" References: <20180804020009.224582-1-sbeller@google.com> <20180804020255.225573-1-sbeller@google.com> <20180804060928.GB55869@aiede.svl.corp.google.com> <87zhxzsb2p.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <001001d42da7$4a9e6570$dfdb3050$@nexbridge.com> <87wot3s87t.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87wot3s87t.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> Subject: RE: [PATCH] Makefile: enable DEVELOPER by default Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 15:20:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01d42dba$8cd1e580$a675b080$@nexbridge.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-ca Thread-Index: AQHcHQgNlToVxohtCSKuj/FaLNrO4gKynkmJAzrMNb8BurMUxgJD1Su/Afe4naYCcXc3+wJ18eWnpBzh/mA= Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On August 6, 2018 1:42 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > On Mon, Aug 06 2018, Randall S. Becker wrote: > > > On August 6, 2018 12:40 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 04 2018, Junio C Hamano wrote: > >> > >> > Duy Nguyen writes: > >> > > >> >> On Sat, Aug 4, 2018 at 8:11 AM Jonathan Nieder > >> >> > >> wrote: > >> >>> My main concern is not about them but about other people building > >> >>> from source in order to run (instead of to develop) Git, and by > >> >>> extension, the people they go to for help when it doesn't work. > >> >>> I have lots of bitter experience of -Werror being a support > >> >>> headache and leading to bad workarounds when someone upgrades > >> >>> their compiler and the build starts failing due to a new warning it has > introduced. > >> >> > >> >> Even old compilers can also throw some silly, false positive > >> >> warnings (which now turn into errors) because they are not as > >> >> smart as new ones. > >> > > >> > I agree with both of the above. I do not think the pros-and-cons > >> > are in favor of forcing the developer bit to everybody, even though > >> > I am sympathetic to the desire to see people throw fewer bad > >> > changes that waste review bandwidth by not compiling or passing its > >> > own tests at us. > >> > >> I agree. > >> > >> Responding to the thread in general, perhaps people would like this > >> more if we turned DEVELOPER=1 DEVOPTS=no-error on by default? > >> > >> That's basically why I added it in 99f763baf5 ("Makefile: add a > >> DEVOPTS to suppress -Werror under DEVELOPER", 2018-04-14), because I > >> wanted the abilty to have verbose informative output without the > >> build dying on some older systems / compilers. > >> > >> It's fine and understandable if you're someone who's just building a > >> package on some older system if you get a bunch of compiler warnings, > >> but more annoying if you have to dig into how to disable a default - > Werror. > > > > I am the platform maintainer for HPE NonStop and need to make sure I'm > > not packaging DEV builds to anyone > > Perhaps confusingly, the DEVELOPER=1 flag in git is not like the developer > flag in some other projects. It's purely there to turn on extra compiler > warnings (by default, fatal), it doesn't e.g. turn on extra asserts, tracing, or > suppress stripping of the binaries. > > So if we enabled some variant of it by default it would be fine to ship the > result of that to your users, e.g. I ship DEVELOPER=1 builds to users. That works for me. I generally consider warnings to be errors in my builds anyway, by policy (except when I have no choice in the matter and the warning is explainable). Cheers, Randall -- Brief whoami: NonStop developer since approximately 211288444200000000 UNIX developer since approximately 421664400 -- In my real life, I talk too much.