From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FF7208EB for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:02:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728475AbeHFTMM (ORCPT ); Mon, 6 Aug 2018 15:12:12 -0400 Received: from cloud.peff.net ([104.130.231.41]:44158 "HELO cloud.peff.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id S1726279AbeHFTMM (ORCPT ); Mon, 6 Aug 2018 15:12:12 -0400 Received: (qmail 16310 invoked by uid 109); 6 Aug 2018 17:02:13 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO peff.net) (10.0.1.2) by cloud.peff.net (qpsmtpd/0.94) with SMTP; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 17:02:13 +0000 Authentication-Results: cloud.peff.net; auth=none Received: (qmail 27943 invoked by uid 111); 6 Aug 2018 17:02:14 -0000 Received: from sigill.intra.peff.net (HELO sigill.intra.peff.net) (10.0.0.7) by peff.net (qpsmtpd/0.94) with (ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted) SMTP; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 13:02:14 -0400 Authentication-Results: peff.net; auth=none Received: by sigill.intra.peff.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 06 Aug 2018 13:02:11 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 13:02:11 -0400 From: Jeff King To: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason Cc: Junio C Hamano , Duy Nguyen , Jonathan Nieder , Stefan Beller , Git Mailing List , git-packagers@googlegroups.com, Han-Wen Nienhuys Subject: Re: [PATCH] Makefile: enable DEVELOPER by default Message-ID: <20180806170211.GD19053@sigill.intra.peff.net> References: <20180804020009.224582-1-sbeller@google.com> <20180804020255.225573-1-sbeller@google.com> <20180804060928.GB55869@aiede.svl.corp.google.com> <87zhxzsb2p.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87zhxzsb2p.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Aug 06, 2018 at 06:40:14PM +0200, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > Responding to the thread in general, perhaps people would like this more > if we turned DEVELOPER=1 DEVOPTS=no-error on by default? > > That's basically why I added it in 99f763baf5 ("Makefile: add a DEVOPTS > to suppress -Werror under DEVELOPER", 2018-04-14), because I wanted the > abilty to have verbose informative output without the build dying on > some older systems / compilers. > > It's fine and understandable if you're someone who's just building a > package on some older system if you get a bunch of compiler warnings, > but more annoying if you have to dig into how to disable a default > -Werror. I had the impression that DEVELOPER=1 was allowed to set flags that old versions might not even know about. Hence they might actually barf, even without -Werror. Maybe that's better since the introduction of the detect-compiler script, though. I do think we may have a skewed view of the population on this list. We're developers ourselves, and we interact with new developers that we want to help. But there are masses of people[1] building Git who are _not_ developers, and want the default to be as robust as possible. They're probably not going to show up in this thread. -Peff [1] I actually wonder how large that mass is. Clearly there are many orders of magnitude more users than there are developers. But I have no idea what percentage of them build from source versus using somebody else's binary package.