From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD7A208EB for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 18:59:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732705AbeHFVKH (ORCPT ); Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:10:07 -0400 Received: from cloud.peff.net ([104.130.231.41]:44474 "HELO cloud.peff.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id S1729861AbeHFVKH (ORCPT ); Mon, 6 Aug 2018 17:10:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 20602 invoked by uid 109); 6 Aug 2018 18:59:41 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO peff.net) (10.0.1.2) by cloud.peff.net (qpsmtpd/0.94) with SMTP; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 18:59:41 +0000 Authentication-Results: cloud.peff.net; auth=none Received: (qmail 30402 invoked by uid 111); 6 Aug 2018 18:59:41 -0000 Received: from sigill.intra.peff.net (HELO sigill.intra.peff.net) (10.0.0.7) by peff.net (qpsmtpd/0.94) with (ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted) SMTP; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 14:59:41 -0400 Authentication-Results: peff.net; auth=none Received: by sigill.intra.peff.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 06 Aug 2018 14:59:39 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 14:59:39 -0400 From: Jeff King To: Jonathan Nieder Cc: =?utf-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsA==?= Bjarmason , Junio C Hamano , Duy Nguyen , Stefan Beller , Git Mailing List , git-packagers@googlegroups.com, Han-Wen Nienhuys Subject: Re: [PATCH] Makefile: enable DEVELOPER by default Message-ID: <20180806185938.GB18119@sigill.intra.peff.net> References: <20180804020009.224582-1-sbeller@google.com> <20180804020255.225573-1-sbeller@google.com> <20180804060928.GB55869@aiede.svl.corp.google.com> <87zhxzsb2p.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <20180806170211.GD19053@sigill.intra.peff.net> <20180806171119.GC120433@aiede.svl.corp.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180806171119.GC120433@aiede.svl.corp.google.com> Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Aug 06, 2018 at 10:11:19AM -0700, Jonathan Nieder wrote: > > We're developers ourselves, and we interact with new developers that we > > want to help. But there are masses of people[1] building Git who are > > _not_ developers, and want the default to be as robust as possible. > > They're probably not going to show up in this thread. > > > > -Peff > > > > [1] I actually wonder how large that mass is. Clearly there are many > > orders of magnitude more users than there are developers. But I have > > no idea what percentage of them build from source versus using > > somebody else's binary package. > > Relatedly, we need to think about the incentives these defaults > create. Personally, I want *more* naive users to be building from > source, because then they are better able to test recent versions, > bisect, test my patches, etc. > > As I hinted in my earlier reply, I think it would be best to try some > basic things to make DEVELOPER more visible first. If that fails, > then we can revisit how to make this more drastic change in a way that > minimizes the harm (and I am not sure yet that that is possible). Yes, I agree very much with both of those paragraphs. -Peff