From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.3 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FSL_HELO_FAKE, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_NONE,USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL shortcircuit=no autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5791F5A2 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 21:45:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726775AbfKRVp0 (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:45:26 -0500 Received: from mail-pg1-f193.google.com ([209.85.215.193]:45523 "EHLO mail-pg1-f193.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726716AbfKRVp0 (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:45:26 -0500 Received: by mail-pg1-f193.google.com with SMTP id k1so8944031pgg.12 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:45:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=1Xv9JtGHufB5h1CigHiibUDn1EGTR8cDUxZeR5JevZA=; b=mrFnxY46ycoAZZzrF4YHg2MKVZslmET1VzynXiUvHDOOLR9wcOsg1G0UDJHcnn0Gns 6o5MFwuqH1T6ulWGhFYDX9fQqaZmKT56d/i79Y/zExJ0w+sTpIgwWx8GstdqJqQH8htl OPLMo/dyDwSWIoZnUmi3N+8HMK2Un44b6x1cLMpzxtl6jYRpN2oDFxYj+C9n0RZjkuIS VMkvF7ACO8Bcake+Uw8fcrJuXS+2/0k2hbPUSmi6R0H0d/4fE+I3Gj9ahtBxEDsKawiu f01j2Pngviah9X5hS4596/xoyheYmxZYuX2gRf2oQQUXjfHBxy0Tuyqd63dYNyXoQASt /OHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=1Xv9JtGHufB5h1CigHiibUDn1EGTR8cDUxZeR5JevZA=; b=mEGgZ4G+7ftfJSPDGTXRLg64bQ7Wp8aB+PYIUuEa4YGXfOVIajLLY+TY2pRLLSwSti FZFu/ZoBoXC+nFipHD5pdT1ihW77TB9RIdBGVDNWZkKpJLvnrdYItg6eTMcuRl7IVUkV vRC7ErQjS59jPRl6Cv/JXIeFh+r7OPJOJYOWlrWX3wBsP5K+nOVHqPev5sdPSb8f4Nvm lD9kUwwAPZ5TLhLGhNttcilmiEyPf06vCmakN1EFsPEKoGUvgM2fM7qvJewLWPafWZeP NTTSqQZ4DEk5fwha8+PcImcrlamzYlu34HmDAyNA5lhjGibRrVMBduZz3MO04rMsaLCH RDoQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXpnlPuyOoHb5jRPfqRXujhp9Swl7k7uIKLaJ2ZTwo2bIZyr1y0 icwrX5ST5A12h9IumeQ4dEA6AiS5wug= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwdEDJPtZnn1KAsLXnje8koKMC9qyjtojeOlUtcmjZ4PWTchYArq3I9oBsxCLQLjsmyEBHcHw== X-Received: by 2002:a62:b611:: with SMTP id j17mr1541746pff.201.1574113525250; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:45:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from google.com ([2620:15c:2ce:0:231c:11cc:aa0a:6dc5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b21sm21243902pgs.35.2019.11.18.13.45.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:45:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:45:19 -0800 From: Emily Shaffer To: Junio C Hamano Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, Denton Liu Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] MyFirstContribution: add avenues for getting help Message-ID: <20191118214519.GH22855@google.com> References: <20191115230637.76877-1-emilyshaffer@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:05:45PM +0900, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Emily Shaffer writes: > > > +[[getting-help]] > > +=== Getting Help > > + > > +If you get stuck, you can seek help in the following places. > > Is this list meant to be an exhaustive list of authoritative > sources? To the best of my knowledge, as applicable, yeah. > IOW, are we reasonably sure that some of us would be > around and give useful help, and that we do not mind readers to > consider these places "officially endorsed by the project"? Right. That's my hope. I worry that sending newbies to non-endorsed places for help will lead to them getting incorrect or conflicting help. > > Or is this meant to be a list of reasonably well-known places, but > may include places where the project does not want to be associated > with the quality of answers given there? No. > I am (implicitly) assuming that it is the former, but I think it is > better to clarify what this "list of places" is meant to be. I'll try to fudge the language so that it implies these are official channels for getting help. > I notice that stack overflow is missing in this list. Intended? > Not that I visit there at all nor I would recommend it, but I recall > seeing questions asked by more than a few people after getting bad > pieces of advice there. Hm. SO for getting help contributing to a specific project? That doesn't sound like a likely avenue or a good idea to me, since my understanding is that we don't consider it an "official presence" (some projects do, I guess). I suppose the kinds of questions I expect to see on StackOverflow include "How do I write a mutex lock in C" or "How do I generate patches with a cover letter", not "I'm stuck on this Git tutorial" or "Would the Git project welcome X change". To me, this doesn't seem like the place to bring it up one way or another. > > > +==== https://public-inbox.org/git[git@vger.kernel.org] > > + > > +This is the main Git project mailing list where code reviews, version > > +announcements, design discussions, and more take place. If you fail to receive > > +help via the channels above, you can ask your question here. The Git list > > +requires plain-text-only emails and prefers inline and bottom-posting when > > +replying to mail; you will be CC'd in all replies to you. Optionally, you can > > +subscribe to the list by sending an email to majordomo@vger.kernel.org with > > +"subscribe git" in the body. > > Sounds good; I agree with Denton, especially with the mention of > "you must join" on the other mailing list, that it is a good idea to > explicitly say that subscription is optional in this entry. > > You can ask questions even if you haven't tried other avenues and > failed, but this entry makes it sound as if an earlier failure > elsewhere is a prerequisite for asking for help here. I envision an exchange sort of like this: Newbie to git@vger.kernel.org: "I'm having trouble compiling Git and I want to write a patch, I'm getting X error" Veteran to Newbie, cc git-mentoring, bcc git@vger.kernel.org: "Please build with blah flag and paste console output, plus let us know system information blah blah blah" I don't mind the idea of pushing folks to ask on the mentoring list first. It's pretty well attended already - just now I count 16 list members, a pretty significant majority of which are project veterans. I have no problem suggesting newbies ask their questions, which others probably had and solved before them, in a space separate from the main mailing list. Of course if you want to encourage newbies to ask in any of these three venues, weighted equally, I can change the language. But suggesting the main list as a last resort was intentional. - Emily