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From: Denton Liu <liu.denton@gmail.com>
To: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
Cc: Pratyush Yadav <me@yadavpratyush.com>,
	Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, don@goodman-wilson.com, stolee@gmail.com,
	peff@peff.net, sandals@crustytoothpaste.net
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 20:19:55 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200616001955.GA686455@generichostname> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2006150011360.56@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet>

Hi Dscho,

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:26:03AM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> > For example, my vim plugins are submodules in the '~/.vim/bundle'
> > directory. When I want to update them, I run:
> >
> >   git submodule foreach 'git remote update && git reset --hard origin/master'
> >
> > With this change hitting a Git release, more and more people would call
> > their main branch different names they like. So what is the recommended
> > way to do something like this now? How do I checkout the tip of the main
> > branch? How do I push to the main branch? How do I pull from the main
> > branch? And so on...
> 
> ... has less to do with a new Git release, but more with the decision of
> an existing project to change their main branch name.
> 
> That's something users already had to deal with, of course. For example,
> projects switching to the Git Flow model will start to use the main branch
> name `development`.

I brought this concern up in a parallel thread but I'll bring it up here
too since it's relevant. Currently, in the .gitmodules file, if the
branch is not specified, it defaults to 'master'.

When I want to update my vim plugins, I run
`git submodule update --remote` which pulls in all of my submodules'
'master' branches. By convention, a lack of `branch` key in .gitmodules
conventionally means 'master'.

With your change, it becomes the value of git_main_branch_name(), which
is fine for now. However, if this value changes to something else, then
when I update my Git, suddenly `git submodule update --remote` will be
broken for me as all of the new repositories that I pull will be for an
incorrect (and possibly missing) branch.

This leaves us in a scenario where one developer running an older
version of Git would have submodule updates work perfectly fine while a
developer with a newer version would have it suddenly broken. This might
be hard to debug, especially for someone who doesn't follow the release
notes around Git and doesn't realise why the default has suddenly
changed.

This problem gets much worse if we allow the main branch name to be
configurable as then the *private* configurations that a developer has
may have an effect on the *publicly visible* behaviour of a repository.

I think I see three possible solutions to this:

	1. Special case 'master' in submodules to retain backwards
	compatibility.

	I don't think this is very appealing as if the change is made to
	use another default branch name, then the "default" branch for
	submodules would be "master" even though the new default
	everywhere else would be different. And in the future, someone
	who doesn't know the context behind all of this would be very
	confused where there are two different default branch names.

	2. Disable 'update --remote' support for submodules that don't
	specify a branch.

	If Git detects that a branch key is missing when trying to do an
	'update --remote', it should just quit out and refuse to do
	anything. Of course, this a very backwards incompatible change
	and it would require several release cycles to implement where
	we warn users about this impending change before we actually
	make it happen.

	3. Make 'update --remote' get HEAD.

	I argue that this is how it always should've been implemented
	but, alas, I can't go back in time and fix it. Regardless, it
	might be good to flip this to be the default if we're going to
	be making the change anyway.

	Unfortunately, this suffers from both the problems of 1 and 2.
	As with 1, we'll end up in a situation where users with
	different versions of Git may experience different behaviours
	given the same public repository and I think this is definitely
	undesirable. With 2, this change will also require a long
	deprecation period which I don't think it compatible with how
	people seem to want the default branch switch to happen this
	release.

So I dunno. I think my opinion leans on not changing the default branch
at all. Since it seems like the consensus is generally that it _will_
change, I think I would prefer options 3, 2 and 1 in that order.

Thoughts?

  reply	other threads:[~2020-06-16  0:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 180+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-06-10 21:19 Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 1/9] init: allow overriding the default branch name for new repositories Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 23:22   ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-11  0:16   ` Eric Sunshine
2020-06-11 14:09     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 15:28       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-16 12:45     ` Jeff King
2020-06-16 12:47       ` Jeff King
2020-06-18 13:08         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 20:32       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11  9:35   ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-12 11:55     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 16:51       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-14 22:00         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 10:00         ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-11 10:23   ` Alban Gruin
2020-06-11 23:14     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 23:46       ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-12 12:45         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-13 18:01       ` Alban Gruin
2020-06-14  8:57         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16 12:25           ` Jeff King
2020-06-18 10:17             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 2/9] remote: respect `core.defaultBranchName` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 12:35   ` Jeff King
2020-06-18 10:21     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-18 11:50       ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 21:15         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 3/9] send-pack/transport-helper: " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 4/9] testsvn: " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 5/9] submodule: use the (possibly overridden) default branch name Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 10:46   ` Denton Liu
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 6/9] clone: learn about the possibly-configured " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 22:58   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 7/9] fmt-merge-msg: " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 22:59   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 8/9] fast-export: respect the possibly-overridden " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:54   ` Matt Rogers
2020-06-10 23:25     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 23:39     ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-11  0:20       ` Matt Rogers
2020-06-11  5:26         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 14:05           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 15:05             ` Re* " Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 16:44               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 18:18                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:07                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 12:32                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:03               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 12:50                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:53               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 13:18                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 15:19                   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 15:22                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13  5:00                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 15:14                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13 11:49                   ` Johannes Sixt
2020-06-13 16:25                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13 14:47                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-13 18:49                         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-14  8:55                           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-17 20:06                             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 21:11                               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 21:32                                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13 14:44                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 13:57     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 18:19       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:07         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 9/9] Document how the default branch name can be overridden Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-11  0:18   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 23:11 ` [PATCH 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11  5:42   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 13:44   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 14:44     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 23:41 ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-11  1:07 ` Taylor Blau
2020-06-11 14:33   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 10:03 ` Pratyush Yadav
2020-06-14 22:26   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16  0:19     ` Denton Liu [this message]
2020-06-23 20:10       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 23:10   ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-15 12:50 ` [PATCH v2 00/12] " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 01/12] fast-export: do anonymize the primary branch name Junio C Hamano via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 12:58     ` Jeff King
2020-06-17 18:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-17 21:23         ` Jeff King
2020-06-18  2:06           ` Elijah Newren
2020-06-18  6:30             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-18  7:13               ` Elijah Newren
2020-06-18 11:45             ` Jeff King
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 02/12] fmt-merge-msg: introduce a way to override the main " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 15:00     ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-23 12:31       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 17:05     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 19:19       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16  8:46     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2020-06-17 18:21       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-16 13:04     ` Jeff King
2020-06-17 18:23       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-18 13:15         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-17 20:56     ` Johannes Sixt
2020-06-17 21:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 21:12         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 03/12] send-pack/transport-helper: respect `core.mainBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 04/12] git_main_branch_name(): optionally report the full ref name Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 15:04     ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-23 19:17       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 05/12] fast-export: handle overridden main branch names correctly Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 15:05     ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-16 13:10       ` Jeff King
2020-06-16 15:49         ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-18 10:08         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 17:09     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 19:22       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 06/12] branch -m: adjust `core.mainBranch` if necessary Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 07/12] init: allow specifying the main branch name for the new repository Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 08/12] init: allow overriding the default main branch name via the config Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 09/12] clone: handle overridden main branch names Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 13:22     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 20:58       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 10/12] remote: learn about the possibly-overridden default main branch name Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 11/12] submodule: use the correct default for the " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 13:46     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 21:03       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 21:14         ` Jeff King
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 12/12] testsvn: respect `init.defaultBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 13:51     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 21:07       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33   ` [PATCH v3 0/8] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 1/8] fmt-merge-msg: stop treating `master` specially Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 16:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-25 13:07         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 2/8] send-pack/transport-helper: avoid mentioning a particular branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  0:36       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 12:44         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-24 15:44           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-25 13:05             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 3/8] submodule: use a better fall-back for missing remote.<name>.branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  2:18       ` Philippe Blain
2020-06-24 12:51         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 4/8] init: allow specifying the initial branch name for the new repository Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  0:58       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 12:55         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 5/8] init: allow setting the default for the initial branch name via the config Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  1:05       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 12:56         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-24 16:25           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 6/8] clone: use configured default branch name when appropriate Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 7/8] remote: use the " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  1:10       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 13:00         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 8/8] testsvn: respect `init.defaultBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46     ` [PATCH v4 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 1/9] fmt-merge-msg: stop treating `master` specially Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-29 16:20         ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2020-06-29 13:27           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-30 15:05             ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2020-07-01 10:39               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-07-01 19:54                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 2/9] send-pack/transport-helper: avoid mentioning a particular branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 3/9] submodule: fall back to remote's HEAD for missing remote.<name>.branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 16:17         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 4/9] docs: add missing diamond brackets Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 5/9] init: allow specifying the initial branch name for the new repository Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 6/9] init: allow setting the default for the initial branch name via the config Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 7/9] clone: use configured default branch name when appropriate Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 8/9] remote: use the " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 9/9] testsvn: respect `init.defaultBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 16:26       ` [PATCH v4 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Junio C Hamano
2020-06-25 13:03         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-29 22:41       ` brian m. carlson
2020-07-12 13:03         ` Edward Thomson
2020-07-12  8:19           ` Johannes Schindelin
     [not found]             ` <CA+WKDT1GMNTY5N862-7ui70D6-b1u6fuUkvctEYo+57aJGbjmw@mail.gmail.com>
2020-07-14 14:55               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16  9:47 ` [PATCH " Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2020-06-16 14:09   ` Jeff King
2020-06-16 14:24     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 20:28       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-17 20:28   ` Junio C Hamano

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