From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6AAC48BDF for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:41:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D954A610CD for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:41:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231709AbhFMLmL (ORCPT ); Sun, 13 Jun 2021 07:42:11 -0400 Received: from smtp-out2.suse.de ([195.135.220.29]:52608 "EHLO smtp-out2.suse.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S231658AbhFMLmK (ORCPT ); Sun, 13 Jun 2021 07:42:10 -0400 Received: from imap.suse.de (imap-alt.suse-dmz.suse.de [192.168.254.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-out2.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E1111FD29; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:40:08 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_rsa; t=1623584408; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5L3iSIuJ144IbNdX5fkqbKE7ztaNehPWuaXa3B/I3bU=; b=RKcMyRL7xiZv1jtSX956LgEW+hbwgTvwckhs2rtJbewUQAh9zz4cGZAJYBLKzGep9REwqz fRLVDf9iSB72BpQmFvokSWS/MEkmOv/rEXwhlPbWVRpSP+njjZpD28hXSB9P9/NKweYwpe HjeZPYY+uGU/Ac2/l0SxkNW+oSLJr5U= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_ed25519; t=1623584408; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5L3iSIuJ144IbNdX5fkqbKE7ztaNehPWuaXa3B/I3bU=; b=CRyiDnzu2IvBQ6FUdVV7Jx/QklSWNEM/0kfxVwfBdYM8In3n5C6QlmnqADVRxX3BqPOrC3 Ojd0Ihwd5A0mokCg== Received: from imap3-int (imap-alt.suse-dmz.suse.de [192.168.254.47]) by imap.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B2B118DD; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:40:08 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_rsa; t=1623584408; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5L3iSIuJ144IbNdX5fkqbKE7ztaNehPWuaXa3B/I3bU=; b=RKcMyRL7xiZv1jtSX956LgEW+hbwgTvwckhs2rtJbewUQAh9zz4cGZAJYBLKzGep9REwqz fRLVDf9iSB72BpQmFvokSWS/MEkmOv/rEXwhlPbWVRpSP+njjZpD28hXSB9P9/NKweYwpe HjeZPYY+uGU/Ac2/l0SxkNW+oSLJr5U= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_ed25519; t=1623584408; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5L3iSIuJ144IbNdX5fkqbKE7ztaNehPWuaXa3B/I3bU=; b=CRyiDnzu2IvBQ6FUdVV7Jx/QklSWNEM/0kfxVwfBdYM8In3n5C6QlmnqADVRxX3BqPOrC3 Ojd0Ihwd5A0mokCg== Received: from director2.suse.de ([192.168.254.72]) by imap3-int with ESMTPSA id LZ5xFJjuxWC8ewAALh3uQQ (envelope-from ); Sun, 13 Jun 2021 11:40:08 +0000 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 13:40:07 +0200 From: Michal =?iso-8859-1?Q?Such=E1nek?= To: Varun Varada Cc: Felipe Contreras , Robert Coup , git@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] doc: replace jargon word "impact" with "effect"/"affect" Message-ID: <20210613114007.GF8544@kitsune.suse.cz> References: <20210512180418.GF8544@kitsune.suse.cz> <609c2f98932f3_71bd120840@natae.notmuch> <20210513074622.GG8544@kitsune.suse.cz> <20210513094818.GH8544@kitsune.suse.cz> <20210527114629.GD8544@kitsune.suse.cz> <60afa7d9d4ca_2056d208d9@natae.notmuch> <20210527143541.GH8544@kitsune.suse.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 06:13:02PM -0500, Varun Varada wrote: > On Thu, 27 May 2021 at 09:35, Michal Suchánek wrote: > > > > > > Not all evidence. There are people who think the use is fine. > > > > > > What people think is not evidence. > > > > > > There's people who think the Earth is flat. > > > > And there's people who think it's not ok to use 'impact' as synonym for > > effect/affect, too. > > This is not because they *think* this, but because it's demonstrably > true. The words are not synonyms according to any reputable > dictionaries, as shown already. > > > > > Indeed, but what the dictionaries provide is a definition. > > > > Based on the definition some people think it's not OK, and some people > > think it's OK. > > > > That's only opinion, not evidence. > > Hence, the dictionary definitions, which are evidence. If people are The dictionaries provide definition, not usage guidelines. Fabricating usage guildelines from sources that do not provide them is opinion, not evidence. > confused as to what the words within the definition mean, they can Two people. That's called 'anecdotal evidence'. You will find anecdotal evidence in favor of pretty much anything possible, that does not mean it's in any way common. > > > > > > > > > that "per se" being used to mean "necessarily" is not a style issue, > > > > > using "impact" to mean "an effect" or "to affect" is not a style > > > > > issue. > > > > > > > > > > As has been stated already, the clear and substantial argument for > > > > > this change is that it reduces the confusion that arises from > > > > > improperly using the word "impact" in the instances without any loss > > > > > > > > There is no final authority on 'correct' word use in English. > > Yes, there essentially is. It's called a dictionary. If you don't > respect the value of dictionaries, you're tacitly claiming that anyone I don't consider opinions tangentially related to dictionary content a proof of anything. Also it has been pointed out that dictionaries don't agree on the precise definition - hence no final authority. The laguage use varies, and dictionaries also reflect that. Even the use of word 'impact'. > > > > > This will bring in reviews that focus on hairsplitting when the > > formulation with 'impact' reads better than 'effect' and where the > > change does not make it read any better so it should not be changed. > > > > It also brings in reviews of the sort that simply say that use of > > 'impact' is OK, and there is no need to change. > > That's an "if". This, however, is a situation where multiple people We already received such reviews as response to your patch. It's not what-if. Best regards Michal