From: Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>
To: "Junio C Hamano" <gitster@pobox.com>,
"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>
Cc: Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
git@vger.kernel.org, sandals@crustytoothpaste.net,
stolee@gmail.com, jrnieder@gmail.com, emilyshaffer@google.com,
Andrei Rybak <rybak.a.v@gmail.com>,
Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>,
Robert Karszniewicz <avoidr@posteo.de>, Jeff King <peff@peff.net>,
"Kerry, Richard" <richard.kerry@atos.net>,
Phillip Susi <phill@thesusis.net>,
Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>,
Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>,
Derrick Stolee <derrickstolee@github.com>,
Derrick Stolee <dstolee@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:12:12 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <60cb664c7a493_13057208fd@natae.notmuch> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xmqqbl86qtyf.fsf@gitster.g>
Junio C Hamano wrote:
> - - Removing the example person might make the sentence more
> - clear and efficient. Instead of saying "The programmer
> - chooses between X and Y as she sees fit", it is clearer to
> - say "Valid choices are X and Y".
> -
> - - If you need to talk about an example person, then try using
> - second-person to allow the reader to be that example. For
> - example, "If you want X to happen, you'd pass option Y",
> - instead of "If the user wants X to happen, she'd ...").
> - Alternatively, replace the single example with more than one
> - person and use plural "they", such as "Interested readers
> - can read 'git log -p README' to learn the history in their
> - ample spare time" instead of "an interested reader" learning
> - in "his" spare time).
> -
> - - If you absolutely need to refer to an example person that is
> - third-person singluar, you may resort to "singular they" (e.g.
> - "A contributor asks their upstream to pull from them").
Here is another escape hatch recommended by linguists before attempting
to use singular "they":
- Use a generic alternative and count on the reader's common sense.
Instead of saying "she made a mistake", say "a mistake was made".
> - Note
> - that this sounds ungrammatical and unnatural to those who
> - learned English as a second language in some parts of the
> - world, so should be avoided unless the earlier techniques
> - fail to improve the sentence.
For the nth time, it's not just foreign speakers:
https://ahdictionary.tumblr.com/post/147597257733/updated-usage-note-they
> + - Prefer succinctness and matter-of-factly describing functionality
> + in the abstract. E.g.
> +
> + --short:: Emit output in the short-format.
> +
> + and avoid something like these overly verbose alternatives:
> +
> + --short:: Use this to emit output in the short-format.
> + --short:: You can use this to get output in the short-format.
> + --short:: A user who prefers shorter output could....
> + --short:: Should a person and/or program want shorter output, he
> + she/they/it can...
> +
> + This practice often eliminates the need to involve human actors in
> + your description, but it is a good practice regardless of the
> + avoidance of gendered pronouns.
> +
> + - When it becomes awkward to stick to this style, prefer "you" when
> + addressing the the hypothetical user, and possibly "we" when
> + discussing how the program might react to the user. E.g.
> +
> + You can use this option instead of --xyz, but we might remove
> + support for it in future versions.
> +
> + while keeping in mind that you can probably be less verbose, e.g.
> +
> + Use this instead of --xyz. This option might be removed in future
> + versions.
> +
> + - If you still need to refer to an example person that is
> + third-person singular, you may resort to "singular they" to avoid
> + "he/she/him/her", e.g.
> +
> + A contributor asks their upstream to pull from them.
> +
> + Note that this sounds ungrammatical and unnatural to those who
> + learned English as a second language in some parts of the world.
These look OK to me, but I wonder why we have writing tips in *coding*
guidelines.
We are not writing a style manual, there's plenty of other tips writers
of documentation, commit messages and comments could use, why are we
only giving tips for gender pronouns?
Why don't we have a section on passive vs. active voice? How about
avoiding zombie nouns? Adjectives and adverbs? That vs. which? Who and
whom?
I don't think there's much value in trying to codify what is a good
sense of style while writing just for one particular non-issue.
Cheers.
--
Felipe Contreras
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-17 15:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-07 16:57 [PATCH 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 1/4] Documentation: use singular they " Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 17:09 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-07 17:32 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-07 17:42 ` Andrei Rybak
2021-06-07 18:21 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-10 7:44 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-10 14:35 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-07 21:36 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 18:47 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-09 20:26 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-11 15:40 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-11 17:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 18:30 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-11 0:16 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-11 16:00 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-12 14:02 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-08 1:18 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-08 8:51 ` Kerry, Richard
2021-06-08 23:21 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-09 13:13 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-10 3:11 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-08 17:33 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-08 18:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:44 ` Kerry, Richard
2021-06-09 17:44 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-25 14:30 ` Kerry, Richard
2021-06-09 4:48 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 8:18 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-10 14:42 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-14 22:10 ` Robert Karszniewicz
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 2/4] *: use singular they in comments Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 17:12 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-07 17:20 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-10 8:20 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-07 19:02 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-07 21:44 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-08 17:36 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 3/4] *: fix typos Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-08 17:37 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-10 8:36 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-10 19:53 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-11 9:55 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 18:31 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-08 1:47 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-07 18:56 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-07 19:05 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-08 0:05 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 21:34 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-10 8:39 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-07 20:00 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 18:29 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-09 20:18 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-07 20:20 ` Robert Karszniewicz
2021-06-07 22:18 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-08 7:10 ` Jeff King
2021-06-08 8:11 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:23 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-09 15:20 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 22:06 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-11 16:11 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-08 17:39 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-09 4:44 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-09 13:27 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-07 20:10 ` [PATCH 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 " Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 1/4] Documentation: use singular they " Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 15:33 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 2/4] *: use singular they in comments Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 15:41 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 3/4] *: fix typos Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 15:50 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 15:44 ` [PATCH v2 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-09 17:22 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 2:03 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 2:28 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 3:30 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 22:32 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-10 22:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-11 16:32 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-11 17:18 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-11 20:38 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-13 7:17 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-15 6:02 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-15 13:36 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-15 17:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-14 0:47 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 0/4] Avoid gendered pronouns Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 1/4] doc: avoid using the gender of other people Felipe Contreras via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 2/4] comments: avoid using the gender of our users Felipe Contreras via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 3/4] *: fix typos Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 16:19 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-15 17:26 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-16 2:47 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-16 5:06 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-16 9:26 ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-06-16 17:44 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-16 19:54 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-16 23:22 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 0:09 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-17 13:22 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-17 14:53 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-17 17:06 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 15:25 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-18 0:26 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-18 16:12 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 15:23 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 15:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-18 0:53 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-18 7:24 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-18 16:40 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-19 7:03 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-28 22:32 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-29 1:31 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-29 1:53 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-29 12:29 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-17 15:12 ` Felipe Contreras [this message]
2021-06-17 14:46 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-15 17:08 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-12 4:40 ` [PATCH 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Bagas Sanjaya
2021-06-12 14:19 ` Phillip Susi
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