From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on dcvr.yhbt.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-ASN: AS31976 209.132.180.0/23 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.7 required=3.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI shortcircuit=no autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by dcvr.yhbt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 521EC1F404 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:54:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727542AbeHaNAp (ORCPT ); Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:00:45 -0400 Received: from mail-it0-f49.google.com ([209.85.214.49]:39840 "EHLO mail-it0-f49.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727222AbeHaNAp (ORCPT ); Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:00:45 -0400 Received: by mail-it0-f49.google.com with SMTP id h1-v6so6255694itj.4 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 01:54:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VPrrJmQzovUkd9/Y2eM5cpDeCXhbUhNy/S5mAyr2O78=; b=TLBZcEG+HQC9yt7IErj1MjE+OsqjcqUf/ZuzA9k8QrvQXltniubBlTF28K6tbF/0wF IoO3I9sWMWVDkAOBh08xsQd1u/n6jfpdF5cFS+W89AQ0dPcvlypDb1ZmZ7S88DO6DO+h OzzSYAitSzO7ewfh4BXWc/jOJuIKLKTs8YLpp2LHxNA4I67b50alNJqH09u5/H4mI7fE vtV5znF3khSWM5B1Aa2/PGrORuE5CdfV2PjoYcFnlZhQajdZyTxzwxUmcRjO9JSM6W5Q 5sZE8F+zSmI++Tz15wic2IRsXgcvDHiPsl3pYox7C0L9aO6F4Ngv9ciccGoCrgCecqss yF2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VPrrJmQzovUkd9/Y2eM5cpDeCXhbUhNy/S5mAyr2O78=; b=dJ9LjEeNsfQRq7RHx+9gWYzzzGTo6LO3TlSSM/C5Q5dXgRB2LvTqCykkQnUCXJC9km oGPI1UwOCojT2fe4xLc25AIpvzrvzXRnEgLSLfs42djgNVc3R6WCPWxCwMnlP9wOYTt9 uByMGO6VUs2L3UImEg/gSCBrycBTvQ74cUh/qcF0SwkLKcjJYsXSbVJjI83dHd/Sak3u ozTKXNBfJ9bBXPpJO9WhteybJZ5VyuAOesAIiIHVH++EAX1O7hgwskjY6EE99fptas7r rnOW8cEl35AqwPx9/nEL4iutTJlbhNRFlfYmPSG3yo2RzMNzriFDsTdGtpDk90M2XMlt RP2g== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BwztzXP7sde97P2uKO8R5hnn6piagXazGBGvBWTmFKqmVDs3y5 a2viiIiad1TvwnqziXx/VqvpSX7D61MU/cHgJr0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vdb6k0gscHzH41NGTzLYQzYKb56lj+Fw1bmsOE6YGz7J+cwo88qBPxvvT3LbtemvqfuvWr4iSXj+FTz+nk8ZUHQ= X-Received: by 2002:a24:45a4:: with SMTP id c36-v6mr4304313itd.145.1535705658214; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 01:54:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4f:22a7:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2018 01:54:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180830192453.GC19685@sigill.intra.peff.net> References: <20180828151419.GA17467@sigill.intra.peff.net> <8736uxe2pm.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <20180830031607.GB665@sigill.intra.peff.net> <20180830192453.GC19685@sigill.intra.peff.net> From: Christian Couder Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:54:17 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Git in Outreachy Dec-Mar? To: Jeff King Cc: Johannes Schindelin , =?UTF-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsCBCamFybWFzb24=?= , git , =?UTF-8?B?0J7Qu9GPINCi0LXQu9C10LbQvdCw0Y8=?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: git-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Jeff King wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 01:46:00PM +0200, Johannes Schindelin wrote: > >> I am willing to mentor, and the only reason that kept me from already >> stepping forward and trying to brush up the landing page is this concern: >> traditionally, we (as in: the core Git contributors) have been less than >> successful in attracting and retaining contributors from under-represented >> groups. I don't think any regular reader of this mailing list can deny >> that. >> >> And while I find it very important to reach out (there are just *so* many >> benefits to having a more diverse team), I have to ask *why* we are so >> unsuccessful. As long as we do not even know the answer to that, is it >> even worth pursuing Outreachy? >> >> I mean, if we make serious mistakes here, without even realizing, that >> directly lead to being stuck in our old bubble, then we are prone to >> simply repeat those mistakes over and over and over again. And that would >> just be a waste of our time, *and* a big de-motivator for the Outreachy >> students. >> >> What's your take on this? > > My feeling is that our lack of diversity has less to do with driving out > diverse candidates, and more that they do not join in the first place. I agree with that. > Which isn't to say we _wouldn't_ drive out diversity, but that I'm not > sure we have very good data on what happens in that second stage. Maybe we could ask Olga in CC what we could do better? > If we > can use the program to overcome "step 1", that helps us get that data > (and hopefully react to it in time to be useful, and not just use the > candidate as a guinea pig; I agree there is the possibility of doing > more harm than good to a student who becomes de-motivated). I agree. > That leaves aside the question of whether things we are doing prevent > people from participating in the first place. I'm certainly open to that > idea, but I think it's a separate discussion. Yeah, I think there is a lot we could do to improve in this area and it would help.