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From: Jeff King <peff@peff.net>
To: "Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>
Cc: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>,
	Derrick Stolee <stolee@gmail.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, Taylor Blau <me@ttaylorr.com>,
	Patrick Steinhardt <ps@pks.im>
Subject: Re: Nesting topics within other threads
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:14:34 -0400
Message-ID: <YIsTqmSoR5k2r6kD@coredump.intra.peff.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8735v9z32l.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 02:14:52PM +0200, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:

> > I really appreciate the way some people (Peff is a stellar example,
> > but there are others who are as good at this) handle these tangents,
> > where the message sent to an existing thread is limited to only give
> > an outline of the idea (possibly with "something like this?" patch
> > for illustration) and then they quickly get out of the way of the
> > discussion by starting a separate thread, while back-referencing "So
> > here is a proper patch based on the idea I interjected in the
> > discussion of that other topic."  And the discussion on the tangent
> > will be done on its own thread.
> 
> In RFC 822 terms. Are you talking about the In-Reply-To[1] or
> References[2] headers, or both/neither?

Since I got listed as an example, I can tell you what I do: I start a
totally new thread with no in-reply-to or references to the old thread.
And the subject is new (usually "[PATCH 0/N] foo..."), so no clever
group-by-subject heuristics will link them.

It's usually a good idea to reference the message-id/lore link in at
least one direction, though (usually I'd do it in the new thread, saying
"this is a followup to ...", but you could also follow-up in the
original to say "I've spun this off into its own series here...").

Which is really _sort of_ like putting it into "References", except that
it's not machine readable. Which is a good thing, because it's a weaker
form and doesn't tell mail clients to group it all into one thread.

> Threading isn't a concept that exists in E-Mail protocols per-se. Just
> In-Reply-To and References. The References header can reference N
> messages most would think about as a separate "thread", and "thread" is
> ultimately some fuzzy MUA-specific concept on top of these (and others).
> 
> E.g. in my client right now I'm looking at just 4 messages in this
> "thread", it doesn't descend down the whole In-Reply-To, others would
> act differently.

Interesting. Mutt (and notmuch, and public-inbox) definitely view these
as part of a larger thread.  It looks like you're using mu4e; I'm
surprised it doesn't, too (of course some clients will give a partial
view of a thread if you've already marked the older messages as read and
moved them into an archival folder).

> It seems to me to be better to veer on the side of using standard fields
> for their intended purpose for archiving / future use. I.e. making "a
> reference" universally machine-readable, as opposed to a lore.kernel.org
> link, or a free-form "in a recent thread" blurb.

I'd disagree here. There's a long history of intentionally breaking the
thread in mailing lists and newsgroups exactly because the topic is
sufficiently different that you want to make it easy for people to treat
it as a separate unit. I admit there's a bit of an art form to deciding
when that is appropriate and when not.

-Peff

  reply index

Thread overview: 118+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-04-01 15:40 [PATCH 00/23] [RFC] Builtin FSMonitor Feature Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 01/23] fsmonitor--daemon: man page and documentation Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 14:13   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-28 13:54     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 02/23] fsmonitor-ipc: create client routines for git-fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 14:31   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-26 20:20     ` Eric Sunshine
2021-04-26 21:02       ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-28 19:26     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 03/23] config: FSMonitor is repository-specific Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 04/23] fsmonitor: introduce `core.useBuiltinFSMonitor` to call the daemon via IPC Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 14:56   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-27  9:20     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-04-27 12:42       ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-28  7:59         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-04-28 16:26           ` [PATCH] repo-settings.c: simplify the setup Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-04-28 19:09             ` Nesting topics within other threads (was: [PATCH] repo-settings.c: simplify the setup) Derrick Stolee
2021-04-28 23:01               ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-05-05 16:12                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-04-29  5:12               ` Nesting topics within other threads Junio C Hamano
2021-04-29 12:14                 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-04-29 20:14                   ` Jeff King [this message]
2021-04-30  0:07                   ` Junio C Hamano
2021-04-30 14:23     ` [PATCH 04/23] fsmonitor: introduce `core.useBuiltinFSMonitor` to call the daemon via IPC Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 05/23] fsmonitor--daemon: add a built-in fsmonitor daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 15:08   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-26 15:45     ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-30 14:31       ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 06/23] fsmonitor--daemon: implement client command options Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 15:12   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-30 14:33     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 07/23] fsmonitor-fs-listen-win32: stub in backend for Windows Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 15:23   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 08/23] fsmonitor-fs-listen-macos: stub in backend for MacOS Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 09/23] fsmonitor--daemon: implement daemon command options Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 15:47   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-26 16:12     ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-30 15:18       ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-30 15:59     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 10/23] fsmonitor--daemon: add pathname classification Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 19:17   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-26 20:11     ` Eric Sunshine
2021-04-26 20:24       ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 11/23] fsmonitor--daemon: define token-ids Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 19:49   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-26 20:01     ` Eric Sunshine
2021-04-26 20:03       ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-30 16:17     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 12/23] fsmonitor--daemon: create token-based changed path cache Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 20:22   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-30 17:36     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 13/23] fsmonitor-fs-listen-win32: implement FSMonitor backend on Windows Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 17:22   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-27 17:41     ` Eric Sunshine
2021-04-30 19:32     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 14/23] fsmonitor-fs-listen-macos: add macos header files for FSEvent Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 18:13   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 15/23] fsmonitor-fs-listen-macos: implement FSEvent listener on MacOS Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 18:35   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-30 20:05     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 16/23] fsmonitor--daemon: implement handle_client callback Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-26 21:01   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-05-03 15:04     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-05-13 18:52   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:40 ` [PATCH 17/23] fsmonitor--daemon: periodically truncate list of modified files Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 13:24   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:41 ` [PATCH 18/23] fsmonitor--daemon:: introduce client delay for testing Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 13:36   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:41 ` [PATCH 19/23] fsmonitor--daemon: use a cookie file to sync with file system Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 14:23   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-05-03 21:59     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-01 15:41 ` [PATCH 20/23] fsmonitor: force update index when fsmonitor token advances Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 14:52   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:41 ` [PATCH 21/23] t7527: create test for fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 15:41   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:41 ` [PATCH 22/23] p7519: add fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 15:45   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-01 15:41 ` [PATCH 23/23] t7527: test status with untracked-cache and fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-04-27 15:51   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-16 22:44 ` [PATCH 00/23] [RFC] Builtin FSMonitor Feature Junio C Hamano
2021-04-20 15:27   ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-04-20 19:13     ` Jeff Hostetler
2021-04-21 13:17     ` Derrick Stolee
2021-04-27 18:49 ` FS Monitor Windows Performance (was [PATCH 00/23] [RFC] Builtin FSMonitor Feature) Derrick Stolee
2021-04-27 19:31 ` FS Monitor macOS " Derrick Stolee
2021-05-22 13:56 ` [PATCH v2 00/28] Builtin FSMonitor Feature Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 01/28] simple-ipc: preparations for supporting binary messages Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 02/28] fsmonitor--daemon: man page Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 03/28] fsmonitor--daemon: update fsmonitor documentation Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 04/28] fsmonitor-ipc: create client routines for git-fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-06-02 11:24     ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 05/28] help: include fsmonitor--daemon feature flag in version info Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 06/28] config: FSMonitor is repository-specific Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 07/28] fsmonitor: introduce `core.useBuiltinFSMonitor` to call the daemon via IPC Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 08/28] fsmonitor--daemon: add a built-in fsmonitor daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 09/28] fsmonitor--daemon: implement client command options Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 10/28] t/helper/fsmonitor-client: create IPC client to talk to FSMonitor Daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-06-11  6:32     ` Junio C Hamano
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 11/28] fsmonitor-fs-listen-win32: stub in backend for Windows Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 12/28] fsmonitor-fs-listen-macos: stub in backend for MacOS Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 13/28] fsmonitor--daemon: implement daemon command options Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 14/28] fsmonitor--daemon: add pathname classification Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 15/28] fsmonitor--daemon: define token-ids Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 16/28] fsmonitor--daemon: create token-based changed path cache Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 17/28] fsmonitor-fs-listen-win32: implement FSMonitor backend on Windows Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 18/28] fsmonitor-fs-listen-macos: add macos header files for FSEvent Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 19/28] fsmonitor-fs-listen-macos: implement FSEvent listener on MacOS Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:56   ` [PATCH v2 20/28] fsmonitor--daemon: implement handle_client callback Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 21/28] fsmonitor--daemon: periodically truncate list of modified files Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 22/28] fsmonitor--daemon: use a cookie file to sync with file system Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 23/28] fsmonitor: enhance existing comments Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 24/28] fsmonitor: force update index after large responses Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 25/28] t7527: create test for fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 26/28] p7519: add fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 27/28] t7527: test status with untracked-cache and fsmonitor--daemon Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-22 13:57   ` [PATCH v2 28/28] t/perf: avoid copying builtin fsmonitor files into test repo Jeff Hostetler via GitGitGadget
2021-05-27  2:06   ` [PATCH v2 00/28] Builtin FSMonitor Feature Junio C Hamano
2021-06-02 11:28     ` Johannes Schindelin

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