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From: Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>
To: Taylor Blau <me@ttaylorr.com>
Cc: git@vger.kernel.org, tytso@mit.edu, derrickstolee@github.com,
	gitster@pobox.com, larsxschneider@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 01/17] Documentation/technical: add cruft-packs.txt
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 10:03:35 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YiZI99yeijQe5Jaq@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <784ee7e0eec9ba520ebaaa27de2de810e2f6798a.1646266835.git.me@ttaylorr.com>

Hi,

Taylor Blau wrote:

> Create a technical document to explain cruft packs. It contains a brief
> overview of the problem, some background, details on the implementation,
> and a couple of alternative approaches not considered here.

Sorry for the very slow review!  I've mentioned a few times that this
overlaps in interesting ways with the gc mechanism described in
hash-function-transition.txt, so I'd like to compare and see how they
interact.

[...]
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/Documentation/technical/cruft-packs.txt
> @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@
[...]
> +Unreachable objects aren't removed immediately, since doing so could race with
> +an incoming push which may reference an object which is about to be deleted.
> +Instead, those unreachable objects are stored as loose object and stay that way
> +until they are older than the expiration window, at which point they are removed
> +by linkgit:git-prune[1].
> +
> +Git must store these unreachable objects loose in order to keep track of their
> +per-object mtimes.

It's worth noting that this behavior is already racy.  That is because
when an unreachable object becomes newly reachable, we do not update
its mtime and the mtimes of every object reachable from it, so if it
then becomes transiently unreachable again then it can be wrongly
collected.

[...]
>                                these repositories often take up a large amount of
> +disk space, since we can only zlib compress them, but not store them in delta
> +chains.

Yes!  I'm happy we're making progress on this.

> +
> +== Cruft packs
> +
> +A cruft pack eliminates the need for storing unreachable objects in a loose
> +state by including the per-object mtimes in a separate file alongside a single
> +pack containing all loose objects.

Can this doc say a little about how "git prune" handles these files?
In particular, does a non cruft pack aware copy of Git (or JGit,
libgit2, etc) do the right thing or does it fight with this mechanism?
If the latter, do we have a repository extension (extensions.*) to
prevent that?

[...]
> +  3. Write the pack out, along with a `.mtimes` file that records the per-object
> +     timestamps.

As a point of comparison, the design in hash-function-transition uses
a single timestamp for the whole pack.  During read operations, objects
in a cruft pack are considered present; during writes, they are
considered _not present_ so that if we want to make a cruft object
newly present then we put a copy of it in a new pack.

Advantage of the mtimes file approach:
- less duplication of storage: a revived object is only stored once,
  in a cruft pack, and then the next gc can "graduate" it out of the
  cruft pack and shrink the cruft pack
- less affect on non-gc Git code: writes don't need to know that any
  cruft objects referenced need to be copied into a new pack

Advantages of the mtime per cruft pack approach:
- easy expiration: once a cruft pack has reached its expiration date,
  it can be deleted as a whole
- less I/O churn: a cruft pack stays as-is until combined into another
  cruft pack or deleted.  There is no frequently-modified mtimes file
  associated to it
- informs the storage layer about what is likely to be accessed: cruft
  packs can get filesystem attributes to put them in less-optimized
  storage since they are likely to be less frequently read

[...]
> +Notable alternatives to this design include:
> +
> +  - The location of the per-object mtime data, and
> +  - Storing unreachable objects in multiple cruft packs.
> +
> +On the location of mtime data, a new auxiliary file tied to the pack was chosen
> +to avoid complicating the `.idx` format. If the `.idx` format were ever to gain
> +support for optional chunks of data, it may make sense to consolidate the
> +`.mtimes` format into the `.idx` itself.
> +
> +Storing unreachable objects among multiple cruft packs (e.g., creating a new
> +cruft pack during each repacking operation including only unreachable objects
> +which aren't already stored in an earlier cruft pack) is significantly more
> +complicated to construct, and so aren't pursued here. The obvious drawback to
> +the current implementation is that the entire cruft pack must be re-written from
> +scratch.

This doesn't mention the approach described in
hash-function-transition.txt (and that's already implemented and has
been in use for many years in JGit's DfsRepository).  Does that mean
you aren't aware of it?

Thanks,
Jonathan

  reply	other threads:[~2022-03-07 18:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 201+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-11-29 22:25 [PATCH 00/17] cruft packs Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 01/17] Documentation/technical: add cruft-packs.txt Taylor Blau
2021-12-02 14:33   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-12-03 21:53     ` Taylor Blau
2021-12-04 22:20   ` Elijah Newren
2021-12-04 23:32     ` Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 02/17] pack-mtimes: support reading .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2021-12-02 15:06   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-12-02 22:32     ` brian m. carlson
2021-12-03 22:24     ` Taylor Blau
2022-01-07 19:41       ` Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 03/17] pack-write: pass 'struct packing_data' to 'stage_tmp_packfiles' Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 04/17] chunk-format.h: extract oid_version() Taylor Blau
2021-12-02 15:22   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-12-03 22:40     ` Taylor Blau
2021-12-06 17:33       ` Derrick Stolee
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 05/17] pack-mtimes: support writing pack .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2021-12-02 15:36   ` Derrick Stolee
2021-12-03 23:04     ` Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 06/17] t/helper: add 'pack-mtimes' test-tool Taylor Blau
2021-12-06 21:16   ` Derrick Stolee
2022-02-23 22:24     ` Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 07/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: return from create_object_entry() Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 08/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft without expiration Taylor Blau
2021-12-06 21:44   ` Derrick Stolee
2022-03-01  2:48     ` Taylor Blau
2021-12-07 15:17   ` Derrick Stolee
2022-02-23 23:34     ` Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 09/17] reachable: add options to add_unseen_recent_objects_to_traversal Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 10/17] reachable: report precise timestamps from objects in cruft packs Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 11/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft with expiration Taylor Blau
2021-12-07 15:30   ` Derrick Stolee
2022-02-23 23:35     ` Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 12/17] builtin/repack.c: support generating a cruft pack Taylor Blau
2021-12-05 20:46   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-01  2:00     ` Taylor Blau
2021-12-07 15:38   ` Derrick Stolee
2022-02-23 23:37     ` Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 13/17] builtin/repack.c: allow configuring cruft pack generation Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 14/17] builtin/repack.c: use named flags for existing_packs Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 15/17] builtin/repack.c: add cruft packs to MIDX during geometric repack Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 16/17] builtin/gc.c: conditionally avoid pruning objects via loose Taylor Blau
2021-11-29 22:25 ` [PATCH 17/17] sha1-file.c: don't freshen cruft packs Taylor Blau
2021-12-03 19:51 ` [PATCH 00/17] " Junio C Hamano
2021-12-03 20:08   ` Taylor Blau
2021-12-03 20:47     ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:57 ` [PATCH v2 " Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 01/17] Documentation/technical: add cruft-packs.txt Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 02/17] pack-mtimes: support reading .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-03-02 20:22     ` Derrick Stolee
2022-03-02 21:33       ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 03/17] pack-write: pass 'struct packing_data' to 'stage_tmp_packfiles' Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 04/17] chunk-format.h: extract oid_version() Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 05/17] pack-mtimes: support writing pack .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 06/17] t/helper: add 'pack-mtimes' test-tool Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 07/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: return from create_object_entry() Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 08/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft without expiration Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 09/17] reachable: add options to add_unseen_recent_objects_to_traversal Taylor Blau
2022-03-02 20:19     ` Derrick Stolee
2022-03-02 21:28       ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 10/17] reachable: report precise timestamps from objects in cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 11/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft with expiration Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  7:42     ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-02 15:54       ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-02 19:57         ` Derrick Stolee
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 12/17] builtin/repack.c: support generating a cruft pack Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 13/17] builtin/repack.c: allow configuring cruft pack generation Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 14/17] builtin/repack.c: use named flags for existing_packs Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 15/17] builtin/repack.c: add cruft packs to MIDX during geometric repack Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 16/17] builtin/gc.c: conditionally avoid pruning objects via loose Taylor Blau
2022-03-02  0:58   ` [PATCH v2 17/17] sha1-file.c: don't freshen cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-03-02 20:23   ` [PATCH v2 00/17] " Derrick Stolee
2022-03-02 21:36     ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:20 ` [PATCH v3 " Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:20   ` [PATCH v3 01/17] Documentation/technical: add cruft-packs.txt Taylor Blau
2022-03-07 18:03     ` Jonathan Nieder [this message]
2022-03-22  1:16       ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-22 21:45         ` Jonathan Nieder
2022-03-22 22:02           ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-22 23:04             ` Jonathan Nieder
2022-03-23  1:01               ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-28 18:46                 ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-28 20:55                   ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-28 21:21                     ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-29 15:59                       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-30  2:23                         ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-30 13:37                           ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-30 17:30                             ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:20   ` [PATCH v3 02/17] pack-mtimes: support reading .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:20   ` [PATCH v3 03/17] pack-write: pass 'struct packing_data' to 'stage_tmp_packfiles' Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:20   ` [PATCH v3 04/17] chunk-format.h: extract oid_version() Taylor Blau
2022-03-03 16:30     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-03 23:32       ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-04  0:16         ` Junio C Hamano
2022-03-03  0:20   ` [PATCH v3 05/17] pack-mtimes: support writing pack .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-03-03 16:45     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-03 23:35       ` Taylor Blau
2022-03-04 10:40         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-03-03  0:20   ` [PATCH v3 06/17] t/helper: add 'pack-mtimes' test-tool Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 07/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: return from create_object_entry() Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 08/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft without expiration Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 09/17] reachable: add options to add_unseen_recent_objects_to_traversal Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 10/17] reachable: report precise timestamps from objects in cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 11/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft with expiration Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 12/17] builtin/repack.c: support generating a cruft pack Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 13/17] builtin/repack.c: allow configuring cruft pack generation Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 14/17] builtin/repack.c: use named flags for existing_packs Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 15/17] builtin/repack.c: add cruft packs to MIDX during geometric repack Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 16/17] builtin/gc.c: conditionally avoid pruning objects via loose Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  0:21   ` [PATCH v3 17/17] sha1-file.c: don't freshen cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-03-03  1:29   ` [PATCH v3 00/17] " Derrick Stolee
2022-05-18 23:10 ` [PATCH v4 " Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:10   ` [PATCH v4 01/17] Documentation/technical: add cruft-packs.txt Taylor Blau
2022-05-19 14:04     ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-18 23:10   ` [PATCH v4 02/17] pack-mtimes: support reading .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-05-19 10:40     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-19 15:21       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-20  7:32         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-20 22:37           ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:10   ` [PATCH v4 03/17] pack-write: pass 'struct packing_data' to 'stage_tmp_packfiles' Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 04/17] chunk-format.h: extract oid_version() Taylor Blau
2022-05-19 11:44     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 05/17] pack-mtimes: support writing pack .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 06/17] t/helper: add 'pack-mtimes' test-tool Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 07/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: return from create_object_entry() Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 08/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft without expiration Taylor Blau
2022-05-19 10:04     ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-19 15:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-20 22:52         ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 09/17] reachable: add options to add_unseen_recent_objects_to_traversal Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 10/17] reachable: report precise timestamps from objects in cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 11/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft with expiration Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 12/17] builtin/repack.c: support generating a cruft pack Taylor Blau
2022-05-19 11:29     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-20 22:39       ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 13/17] builtin/repack.c: allow configuring cruft pack generation Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 14/17] builtin/repack.c: use named flags for existing_packs Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 15/17] builtin/repack.c: add cruft packs to MIDX during geometric repack Taylor Blau
2022-05-19 11:32     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-20 22:42       ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 16/17] builtin/gc.c: conditionally avoid pruning objects via loose Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:11   ` [PATCH v4 17/17] sha1-file.c: don't freshen cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-05-18 23:48   ` [PATCH v4 00/17] " Derrick Stolee
2022-05-20 23:19     ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-20 23:30       ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-19 11:42   ` [RFC PATCH 0/2] Utility functions for duplicated pack(write) code Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-19 11:42     ` [RFC PATCH 1/2] packfile API: add and use a pack_name_to_ext() utility function Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-19 15:40       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-19 11:42     ` [RFC PATCH 2/2] hash API: add and use a hash_short_id_by_algo() function Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-19 15:50       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-19 19:07         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-19 15:31     ` [RFC PATCH 0/2] Utility functions for duplicated pack(write) code Junio C Hamano
2022-05-19 11:54   ` [PATCH v4 00/17] cruft packs Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-20 23:17 ` [PATCH v5 " Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 01/17] Documentation/technical: add cruft-packs.txt Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 02/17] pack-mtimes: support reading .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-05-24 19:32     ` Jonathan Nieder
2022-05-24 19:44       ` rsbecker
2022-05-24 22:25         ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-24 23:24           ` rsbecker
2022-05-25  0:07             ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-25  0:20               ` rsbecker
2022-05-25  9:11               ` adding new 32-bit on-disk (unsigned) timestamp formats (was: [PATCH v5 02/17] pack-mtimes: support reading .mtimes files) Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-25 13:30                 ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-25 21:13                   ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-26  0:02                     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-26  0:12                       ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-24 22:21       ` [PATCH v5 02/17] pack-mtimes: support reading .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-05-25  7:48         ` Jonathan Nieder
2022-05-25 21:36           ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-25 21:58             ` rsbecker
2022-05-25 22:59               ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-25 23:02     ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-26  0:30       ` Junio C Hamano
2023-06-01 13:01     ` Andreas Schwab
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 03/17] pack-write: pass 'struct packing_data' to 'stage_tmp_packfiles' Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 04/17] chunk-format.h: extract oid_version() Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 05/17] pack-mtimes: support writing pack .mtimes files Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 06/17] t/helper: add 'pack-mtimes' test-tool Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 07/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: return from create_object_entry() Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 08/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft without expiration Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 09/17] reachable: add options to add_unseen_recent_objects_to_traversal Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:17   ` [PATCH v5 10/17] reachable: report precise timestamps from objects in cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:18   ` [PATCH v5 11/17] builtin/pack-objects.c: --cruft with expiration Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:18   ` [PATCH v5 12/17] builtin/repack.c: support generating a cruft pack Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:18   ` [PATCH v5 13/17] builtin/repack.c: allow configuring cruft pack generation Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:18   ` [PATCH v5 14/17] builtin/repack.c: use named flags for existing_packs Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:18   ` [PATCH v5 15/17] builtin/repack.c: add cruft packs to MIDX during geometric repack Taylor Blau
2022-05-20 23:18   ` [PATCH v5 16/17] builtin/gc.c: conditionally avoid pruning objects via loose Taylor Blau
2022-06-19  5:38     ` René Scharfe
2022-06-21 15:58       ` Junio C Hamano
2022-05-20 23:18   ` [PATCH v5 17/17] sha1-file.c: don't freshen cruft packs Taylor Blau
2022-05-21 11:17   ` [PATCH v5 00/17] " Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-24 19:39     ` Jonathan Nieder
2022-05-24 21:50       ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-24 21:55         ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2022-05-24 22:12           ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-25  7:53             ` Jonathan Nieder
2022-05-25 19:59               ` Derrick Stolee
2022-05-25 21:09                 ` Taylor Blau
2022-05-26  0:06                   ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason

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