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([2600:1700:e72:80a0:113f:4437:94ed:3bef]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m199sm12318703qke.71.2021.06.15.06.36.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Jun 2021 06:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate To: Junio C Hamano , =?UTF-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsCBCamFybWFzb24=?= Cc: "brian m. carlson" , Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget , git@vger.kernel.org, jrnieder@gmail.com, emilyshaffer@google.com, Andrei Rybak , Felipe Contreras , Robert Karszniewicz , Jeff King , "Kerry, Richard" , Derrick Stolee References: <87a6nz2fda.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <87pmwt1dz3.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <87h7i21a43.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> From: Derrick Stolee Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:36:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org On 6/15/2021 2:02 AM, Junio C Hamano wrote: > Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason writes: > >> Or, if we just fix these existing occurrences as a one-off there'll be >> no existing examples of it in-tree, and as people tend to imitate >> existing documentation they're unlikely to introduce new >> occurrences. > > I suspect that may be a bit too optimistic. It is too easy to > discuss interaction among users and introduce pronouns to refer to > them, and when it happens, it is far easier to have a document to > point at and tell them why we want them to rephrase if not how > exactly. For that reason, I'd prefer to have some word about the > desire to make examples and explanations gender-neutral in the > guidelines. The mechanics we recommend to achieve the goal does not > have to be specified if we want brevity---that can be learned by > imitating existing practices. Thanks. This was the whole intention of this series: to land on a policy that improves our understanding of gendered pronouns and be able to point to it when the situation arises again, even if that is a rare occasion. While my initial recommendation wasn't accepted, I'm glad we are coming to an agreement. >> If and when Felipe's <20210611202819.47077-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> >> is applied how small is the diff you'll still have rebased on top of >> that? > > I just retried a "competing" merge that got ugly ;-) > > Between Derrick's two "singular they" patches (one for comments, the > other for docs) and Felipe's two patches (the same split), they > touch identical base text. Only the way they neuter the description > is different, and to me the latter feels a bit more ESL friendly. > > So, the main things that are missing from Felipe's version that we > may want to build on top before the whole discussion can be > concluded are: > > - Derrick's "typofix" patch, but if I recall correctly it needed a > fix-up in one of its hunks? > > - Guidelines; you had a more generic readability tips that would > (incidentally) result in nudging the writers to be more gender > neutral, which I think is going in the right direction, but I do > prefer to see an explicit mention of gender-neutrality as one > bullet item. I will send a v3 soon with Felipe's two patches, a fixed typo patch, and a new set of guidelines. Thanks, -Stolee