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From: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
To: Taylor Blau <me@ttaylorr.com>
Cc: Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org, don@goodman-wilson.com, stolee@gmail.com,
	peff@peff.net, sandals@crustytoothpaste.net
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:33:37 +0200 (CEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2006111610000.56@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200611010720.GA21728@syl.local>

Hi Taylor,

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020, Taylor Blau wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 09:19:21PM +0000, Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget wrote:
> > A growing number of open source projects aims to avoid the branch name
> > master due to its negative connotation. See [1] for an existing discussion
> > on this. The links [2], [3], and [4] describe community-driven ways for
> > users to rename their default branches or use template edits to set a new
> > default branch name.
> >
> > [1]
> > https://lore.kernel.org/git/CAOAHyQwyXC1Z3v7BZAC+Bq6JBaM7FvBenA-1fcqeDV==apdWDg@mail.gmail.com/
> >
> > [2] https://twitter.com/mislav/status/1270388510684598272
> >
> > [3]
> > https://www.hanselman.com/blog/EasilyRenameYourGitDefaultBranchFromMasterToMain.aspx
> >
> > [4] https://github.com/ethomson/retarget_prs
> >
> > By necessity, existing repositories require a lot of manual work to move
> > away from that branch name, but it should be much easier for new
> > repositories.
>
> This is (somewhat) orthogonal to the topic here, but I wonder if we
> could be doing anything to make this easier for users.
>
> Could servers remember that a branch has ``moved'' and alert users as
> such when they pull? Even better, it would be nice if this alert from
> the server could allow clients to automatically rename their refs
> appropriately so that this transition is as easy as possible, even for
> existing repositories.

I would _love_ to have `git fetch origin master` work, spitting out a
message `the main branch name changed to [...] please update your
configuration`.

And then maybe an easy way to update the configuration (`git remote
set-main-branch <nick> <refname>` might make sense).

As you say, it is orthogonal to this here patch series, but definitely
related in spirit because we _want_ to make it easier for users to move
away from the current main branch name.

> > This patch series allows overriding the branch name being used for new
> > repositories' main branch. The main way to do this is the new
> > core.defaultBranchName config option. This first patch was contributed by
> > newcomer Dan Goodman-Wilson. Thanks for the contribution!
>
> Welcome, Dan! This is a fantastic first contribution, and I would be
> honored to help and move this forward in anyway that I can.

Sorry, my typo: it's Don, not Dan ;-)

> I should note that I am technically "out of office" (which normally
> wouldn't mean much, but this time means that I am on a road-trip, and so
> am only at my computer infrequently). I am catching up on just a few
> emails here, but I'll be able to help out more (and would be honored to
> do so) once I am really back next Monday.

Well, go back enjoying your road trip! :-P See you on Monday.

> > The other patches follow other places where "master" is hard-coded and use
> > the new git_default_branch_name() method to consume the config option before
> > falling back to "master".
> >
> > The last patch updates documentation only after the config option is ready
> > to apply to all of these scenarios.
> >
> > This series DOES NOT change the default automatically, but only provides an
> > opt-in mechanism for interested users. It also presents a way forward for
> > such a transition, if and when we decide to do so. Specifically, the new
> > GIT_TEST_DEFAULT_BRANCH_NAME environment variable could be used to update
> > test scripts on an individual basis instead of all-at-once.
>
> Provided that the eventual plan is to seriously evaluate a name other
> than "master", I think that this is a good way forward that clears the
> way for us to make this change easily, without forcing us to come to a
> conclusion on what name will replace "master" today.

That is exactly the intention of this patch series.

I _do_ want to put my weight behind changing the default. Obviously, this
will take quite a bit of time (but maybe less than I originally thought,
as we are only talking about changing the default for _new_ repositories).

Even if this endeavor fails, though, this here patch series will be good
to have.

> For what it's worth, I am completely in favor of abandoning this term.
> My colleagues at GitHub (as has been mentioned previously on the list)
> are in favor of this as well, and it is my understanding that other
> providers feel similarly.

From what I read at https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/issues/221164,
GitLab is on board, too.

> I would be in favor of any non-offensive name that we can reach
> consensus on. "trunk" sounds nice to me, but I think that it may cause
> problems for non-native English speakers, so perhaps "main" or
> "default" would suffice (maybe "main" is better, since it retains muscle
> memory for the first two characters without being offensive--at least,
> as far as I can tell. If I am wrong, please correct me and we should
> consider something else).

My personal preference was "default" on Monday, and "main" ever since.

> All of that said, I can't emphasize enough how little I care about
> *what* name we replace "master" with, so long as it is (1) replaced with
> a non-offensive term, (2) that that change is done uniformly throughout
> the "Git Ecosystem" and (3) that the community can reach consensus on
> the new term in a respectful, appropriate, and considerate way. I only
> provided a few suggestions to get the conversation flowing, although I
> suspect that my help isn't needed there.

Indeed. I laid out the patch series in such a way that we should be able
to pick a different default main branch name than "main", even if it is my
current working hypothesis that this will prevail.

As I said, my preference was "default", and that's how my big patch series
looked like, so I know how much work it is to change to a different name
(because I changed it to "main"). It is quite a bit of work, but
manageable.

Ciao,
Dscho

  reply	other threads:[~2020-06-11 14:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 180+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-06-10 21:19 Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 1/9] init: allow overriding the default branch name for new repositories Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 23:22   ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-11  0:16   ` Eric Sunshine
2020-06-11 14:09     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 15:28       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-16 12:45     ` Jeff King
2020-06-16 12:47       ` Jeff King
2020-06-18 13:08         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 20:32       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11  9:35   ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-12 11:55     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 16:51       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-14 22:00         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 10:00         ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-11 10:23   ` Alban Gruin
2020-06-11 23:14     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 23:46       ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-12 12:45         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-13 18:01       ` Alban Gruin
2020-06-14  8:57         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16 12:25           ` Jeff King
2020-06-18 10:17             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 2/9] remote: respect `core.defaultBranchName` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 12:35   ` Jeff King
2020-06-18 10:21     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-18 11:50       ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 21:15         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 3/9] send-pack/transport-helper: " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 4/9] testsvn: " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 5/9] submodule: use the (possibly overridden) default branch name Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 10:46   ` Denton Liu
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 6/9] clone: learn about the possibly-configured " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 22:58   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 7/9] fmt-merge-msg: " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 22:59   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 8/9] fast-export: respect the possibly-overridden " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-10 21:54   ` Matt Rogers
2020-06-10 23:25     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 23:39     ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-11  0:20       ` Matt Rogers
2020-06-11  5:26         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 14:05           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 15:05             ` Re* " Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 16:44               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 18:18                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:07                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 12:32                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:03               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 12:50                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:53               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 13:18                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 15:19                   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 15:22                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13  5:00                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-12 15:14                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13 11:49                   ` Johannes Sixt
2020-06-13 16:25                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13 14:47                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-13 18:49                         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-14  8:55                           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-17 20:06                             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 21:11                               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 21:32                                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-13 14:44                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 13:57     ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 18:19       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-12 12:07         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-10 21:19 ` [PATCH 9/9] Document how the default branch name can be overridden Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-11  0:18   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 23:11 ` [PATCH 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11  5:42   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-11 13:44   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-11 14:44     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-10 23:41 ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-11  1:07 ` Taylor Blau
2020-06-11 14:33   ` Johannes Schindelin [this message]
2020-06-15 10:03 ` Pratyush Yadav
2020-06-14 22:26   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16  0:19     ` Denton Liu
2020-06-23 20:10       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 23:10   ` brian m. carlson
2020-06-15 12:50 ` [PATCH v2 00/12] " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 01/12] fast-export: do anonymize the primary branch name Junio C Hamano via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 12:58     ` Jeff King
2020-06-17 18:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-17 21:23         ` Jeff King
2020-06-18  2:06           ` Elijah Newren
2020-06-18  6:30             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-18  7:13               ` Elijah Newren
2020-06-18 11:45             ` Jeff King
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 02/12] fmt-merge-msg: introduce a way to override the main " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 15:00     ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-23 12:31       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 17:05     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 19:19       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16  8:46     ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2020-06-17 18:21       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-16 13:04     ` Jeff King
2020-06-17 18:23       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-18 13:15         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-17 20:56     ` Johannes Sixt
2020-06-17 21:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 21:12         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 03/12] send-pack/transport-helper: respect `core.mainBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 04/12] git_main_branch_name(): optionally report the full ref name Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 15:04     ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-23 19:17       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 05/12] fast-export: handle overridden main branch names correctly Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 15:05     ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-16 13:10       ` Jeff King
2020-06-16 15:49         ` Phillip Wood
2020-06-18 10:08         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 17:09     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 19:22       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 06/12] branch -m: adjust `core.mainBranch` if necessary Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 07/12] init: allow specifying the main branch name for the new repository Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 08/12] init: allow overriding the default main branch name via the config Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 09/12] clone: handle overridden main branch names Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 13:22     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 20:58       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 10/12] remote: learn about the possibly-overridden default main branch name Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 11/12] submodule: use the correct default for the " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 13:46     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 21:03       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 21:14         ` Jeff King
2020-06-15 12:50   ` [PATCH v2 12/12] testsvn: respect `init.defaultBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-16 13:51     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 21:07       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33   ` [PATCH v3 0/8] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 1/8] fmt-merge-msg: stop treating `master` specially Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 16:16       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-25 13:07         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 2/8] send-pack/transport-helper: avoid mentioning a particular branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  0:36       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 12:44         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-24 15:44           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-25 13:05             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 3/8] submodule: use a better fall-back for missing remote.<name>.branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  2:18       ` Philippe Blain
2020-06-24 12:51         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 4/8] init: allow specifying the initial branch name for the new repository Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  0:58       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 12:55         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 5/8] init: allow setting the default for the initial branch name via the config Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  1:05       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 12:56         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-24 16:25           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 6/8] clone: use configured default branch name when appropriate Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 7/8] remote: use the " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24  1:10       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 13:00         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-23 22:33     ` [PATCH v3 8/8] testsvn: respect `init.defaultBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46     ` [PATCH v4 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 1/9] fmt-merge-msg: stop treating `master` specially Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-29 16:20         ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2020-06-29 13:27           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-30 15:05             ` Đoàn Trần Công Danh
2020-07-01 10:39               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-07-01 19:54                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 2/9] send-pack/transport-helper: avoid mentioning a particular branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 3/9] submodule: fall back to remote's HEAD for missing remote.<name>.branch Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 16:17         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 4/9] docs: add missing diamond brackets Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 5/9] init: allow specifying the initial branch name for the new repository Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 6/9] init: allow setting the default for the initial branch name via the config Don Goodman-Wilson via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 7/9] clone: use configured default branch name when appropriate Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 8/9] remote: use the " Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 14:46       ` [PATCH v4 9/9] testsvn: respect `init.defaultBranch` Johannes Schindelin via GitGitGadget
2020-06-24 16:26       ` [PATCH v4 0/9] Allow overriding the default name of the default branch Junio C Hamano
2020-06-25 13:03         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-29 22:41       ` brian m. carlson
2020-07-12 13:03         ` Edward Thomson
2020-07-12  8:19           ` Johannes Schindelin
     [not found]             ` <CA+WKDT1GMNTY5N862-7ui70D6-b1u6fuUkvctEYo+57aJGbjmw@mail.gmail.com>
2020-07-14 14:55               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-16  9:47 ` [PATCH " Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2020-06-16 14:09   ` Jeff King
2020-06-16 14:24     ` Jeff King
2020-06-23 20:28       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-06-17 20:28   ` Junio C Hamano

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