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From: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
To: Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de>
Cc: Jeff Hostetler <git@jeffhostetler.com>,
	Emily Shaffer <emilyshaffer@google.com>,
	git@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 2/5] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2020 11:37:44 -0700
Message-ID: <xmqq36agjbt3.fsf@gitster.c.googlers.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2003101239000.46@tvgsbejvaqbjf.bet> (Johannes Schindelin's message of "Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:42:03 +0100 (CET)")

Johannes Schindelin <Johannes.Schindelin@gmx.de> writes:

>> The right sense of relative importance between efficiently running
>> the rest of Git by not bloting the main binary and making sure not
>> to ship Git that does not run unless "git bugreport" runs (which
>> makes sure that "bugreport" runs) is what you are missing, I
>> suspect.
>
> By that reasoning, `git bugreport` should not be included in core Git.

The world does not have to be black-or-white.  "git bugreport" that
covers mainstream platforms in widely-used configurations may be
only an 80% solution, but that is better than nothing at all.

>> Another thing is that you are giving "git bugreport" too much weight
>> and too little credit to inexperienced users, by assuming that we
>> will never hear from them when "bugreport" is incapable to run for
>> them.  They will report, with or without "git bugreport", and the
>> more important thing you seem to be missing is that after the
>> initial contact it would become an interactive process---there is
>> no reason to prioritize to ensure that the initial contact has
>> everything that is needed to diagnose any issue without further
>> interaction.  "With my build, even 'bugreport' dumps core." is
>> perfectly good place to start.
>>
>> Besides, wouldn't the ones on platforms, on which "git bugreport"
>> may have trouble running, i.e. the ones on minority and exotic
>> platforms, tend to be self sufficient and capable (both diagnosing
>> the issue for themselves, and reaching out to us as appropriate)
>> ones in practice (e.g. I have NonStop folks in mind)?
>
> Yes, I can agree that inexperienced users will not give up and keep
> up the conversation until they see their problems fixed.

Inexperienced users won't be on minority platforms for which we do
not have enough resource to get "git bugreport" to run adequetly in
the first place.  Even if those on minority platforms whose userbase
are all technically incapable ones, if they do not help us help
them, what can "git bugreport" can do, and more importantly, how
would it make a difference between "bugreport" being a built-in vs a
standalone?

At this point, I'd have to say that your quibbling does not deserve
a serious response and it would be better use of my time to
disengage from this thread.


  reply index

Thread overview: 273+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-12-13  0:42 [PATCH v4 00/15] add git-bugreport tool Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:42 ` [PATCH v4 01/15] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:42 ` [PATCH v4 02/15] help: move list_config_help to builtin/help Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 20:51   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 21:36     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-16 22:19       ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 22:34         ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 03/15] bugreport: gather git version and build info Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:06   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-20  1:46     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-17 18:45   ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-12-17 20:34     ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-20  1:25       ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 04/15] help: add shell-path to --build-options Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 05/15] bugreport: add uname info Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:12   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-10  2:05   ` Aaron Schrab
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 06/15] bugreport: add glibc version Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:18   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 22:39     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 07/15] bugreport: add curl version Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:27   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 22:49     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-17 18:47   ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 08/15] bugreport: include user interactive shell Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:38   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 09/15] bugreport: generate config safelist based on docs Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 22:57   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 23:01     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-17  0:41       ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-15 20:17   ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-12-16 22:52     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-17 18:38   ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 10/15] bugreport: add config values from safelist Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:45   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 23:40     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-17 17:43       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-01-24  3:29         ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-29 20:17   ` Johannes Schindelin
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 11/15] bugreport: collect list of populated hooks Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:47   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 23:51     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 12/15] bugreport: count loose objects Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:51   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 23:54     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 13/15] bugreport: add packed object summary Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13 21:56   ` Junio C Hamano
2019-12-16 23:56     ` Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 14/15] bugreport: list contents of $OBJDIR/info Emily Shaffer
2019-12-13  0:43 ` [PATCH v4 15/15] bugreport: summarize contents of alternates file Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34 ` [PATCH v5 00/15] add git-bugreport tool emilyshaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 01/15] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:18     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-04 22:00       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 02/15] help: move list_config_help to builtin/help emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:19     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-04  0:53       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 03/15] bugreport: gather git version and build info emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:19     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-04 22:21       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 04/15] help: add shell-path to --build-options emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:21     ` Martin Ågren
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 05/15] bugreport: add uname info emilyshaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 06/15] bugreport: add compiler info emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:21     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-04 22:51       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-05 19:47         ` Martin Ågren
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 07/15] bugreport: add curl version emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:27     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-04 22:54       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 08/15] bugreport: include user interactive shell emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:28     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-04 23:16       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-05 20:06       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-05 20:14         ` Martin Ågren
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 09/15] bugreport: generate config safelist based on docs emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:34     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-05  0:44       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-05 19:53         ` Martin Ågren
2020-01-31 21:20     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-05  0:30       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-05  0:52         ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 10/15] bugreport: add config values from safelist emilyshaffer
2020-01-30 22:36     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-05  1:34       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-31 21:25     ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-05  2:31       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-05 20:12         ` Martin Ågren
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 11/15] bugreport: collect list of populated hooks emilyshaffer
2020-02-04 18:44     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-05  2:48       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-05  3:00         ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 12/15] bugreport: count loose objects emilyshaffer
2020-02-04 18:48     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-05  2:50       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 13/15] bugreport: add packed object summary emilyshaffer
2020-02-04 19:00     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-05  3:15       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-04 19:03     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-05  3:09       ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 14/15] bugreport: list contents of $OBJDIR/info emilyshaffer
2020-01-24  3:34   ` [PATCH v5 15/15] bugreport: summarize contents of alternates file emilyshaffer
2020-01-24  3:38   ` [PATCH v5 00/15] add git-bugreport tool Emily Shaffer
2020-01-28 23:04   ` Jonathan Tan
2020-01-28 23:26     ` Emily Shaffer
2020-01-30 22:15   ` Martin Ågren
2020-02-04  0:07     ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:40   ` [PATCH v6 " Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:40     ` [PATCH v6 01/15] help: move list_config_help to builtin/help Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  1:35       ` Danh Doan
2020-02-13 22:58         ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-13 23:07           ` Eric Sunshine
2020-02-13 23:24             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-13 23:29               ` Eric Sunshine
2020-02-14  1:20                 ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:40     ` [PATCH v6 02/15] help: add shell-path to --build-options Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:40     ` [PATCH v6 03/15] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-07 14:18       ` SZEDER Gábor
2020-02-07 18:51         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-11 22:40           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-07 14:54       ` SZEDER Gábor
2020-02-12 18:06       ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-12 22:36         ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:40     ` [PATCH v6 04/15] bugreport: gather git version and build info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:40     ` [PATCH v6 05/15] bugreport: add uname info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:40     ` [PATCH v6 06/15] bugreport: add compiler info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 07/15] bugreport: add git-remote-https version Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 08/15] bugreport: include user interactive shell Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 09/15] bugreport: generate config safelist based on docs Emily Shaffer
2020-02-07 15:30       ` SZEDER Gábor
2020-02-13 23:14         ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 10/15] bugreport: add config values from safelist Emily Shaffer
2020-02-07 14:47       ` SZEDER Gábor
2020-02-07 15:08         ` SZEDER Gábor
2020-02-07 16:24           ` Eric Sunshine
2020-02-07 16:51             ` Andreas Schwab
2020-02-13 22:02               ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 11/15] bugreport: collect list of populated hooks Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 12/15] bugreport: count loose objects Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 13/15] bugreport: add packed object summary Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 14/15] bugreport: list contents of $OBJDIR/info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-06  0:41     ` [PATCH v6 15/15] bugreport: summarize contents of alternates file Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53     ` [PATCH v7 00/15] add git-bugreport tool Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 01/15] help: move list_config_help to builtin/help Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 02/15] help: add shell-path to --build-options Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 03/15] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14 17:25         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-15  1:57           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-15 18:24             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-18 23:46               ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-18 23:56                 ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-19 23:15                   ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-19 23:24                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-19 14:18         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-19 16:55           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-19 21:52             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-19 22:09               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-19 23:06                 ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 04/15] bugreport: gather git version and build info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 05/15] bugreport: add uname info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 06/15] bugreport: add compiler info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-19 14:23         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-19 22:45           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 22:33             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-20 23:33               ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-21 15:22                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-22  0:04                   ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-24  2:55                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 07/15] bugreport: add git-remote-https version Emily Shaffer
2020-02-19 14:28         ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-19 22:28           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-19 22:33             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20 22:33               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 08/15] bugreport: include user interactive shell Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 09/15] bugreport: generate config safelist based on docs Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 10/15] bugreport: add config values from safelist Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 11/15] bugreport: collect list of populated hooks Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 12/15] bugreport: count loose objects Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 13/15] bugreport: add packed object summary Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 14/15] bugreport: list contents of $OBJDIR/info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14 17:04         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-18 23:59           ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14  1:53       ` [PATCH v7 15/15] bugreport: summarize contents of alternates file Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14 17:32       ` [PATCH v7 00/15] add git-bugreport tool Junio C Hamano
2020-02-14 22:00         ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-14 22:30           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20  1:58       ` [PATCH v8 " Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 01/15] help: move list_config_help to builtin/help Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 02/15] help: add shell-path to --build-options Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 19:03           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20 21:15             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 03/15] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 19:33           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20 22:33             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-26 16:12           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 04/15] bugreport: gather git version and build info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 20:07           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20 23:03             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 23:18               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 05/15] bugreport: add uname info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 20:12           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20 23:20             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 06/15] bugreport: add compiler info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  2:49           ` Danh Doan
2020-02-20 23:23             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 20:23           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-21  0:26           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 07/15] bugreport: add git-remote-https version Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 20:35           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20 23:28             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-21  3:44               ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-25 22:08                 ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-25 22:26                   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-25 23:29                     ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-25 23:29                   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-25 23:55                     ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 08/15] bugreport: include user interactive shell Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 09/15] bugreport: generate config safelist based on docs Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 20:40           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-26 16:13           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-26 16:49             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 10/15] bugreport: add config values from safelist Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 20:47           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 11/15] bugreport: collect list of populated hooks Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 20:58           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-25 23:19             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 12/15] bugreport: count loose objects Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 21:04           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-25 23:22             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-25 23:26               ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 13/15] bugreport: add packed object summary Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 22:04           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-25 23:58             ` Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 14/15] bugreport: list contents of $OBJDIR/info Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 22:18           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-02-20  1:58         ` [PATCH v8 15/15] bugreport: summarize contents of alternates file Emily Shaffer
2020-02-20 14:08           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-02-20 22:22           ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-02 23:03         ` [PATCH v9 0/5] add git-bugreport tool Emily Shaffer
2020-03-02 23:03           ` [PATCH v9 1/5] help: move list_config_help to builtin/help Emily Shaffer
2020-03-02 23:03           ` [PATCH v9 2/5] bugreport: add tool to generate debugging info Emily Shaffer
2020-03-03 14:18             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-04 21:35             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-05 23:34               ` Jeff Hostetler
2020-03-06 13:57                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-06 18:25                   ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-06 18:08                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-06 18:58                   ` Jeff Hostetler
2020-03-08 22:24                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-09 14:59                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-09 19:17                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-09 19:47                         ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-10 11:42                           ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-10 18:37                             ` Junio C Hamano [this message]
2020-03-10 22:08                               ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-19 21:39               ` Emily Shaffer
2020-03-20  0:28                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-20 15:35                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-23 18:52                     ` Emily Shaffer
2020-03-20 15:42                 ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-23 18:50                   ` Emily Shaffer
2020-03-20 17:43                 ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-20 22:38                   ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-20 22:47                     ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-21 10:53                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-02 23:03           ` [PATCH v9 3/5] bugreport: gather git version and build info Emily Shaffer
2020-03-23 21:20             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-02 23:03           ` [PATCH v9 4/5] bugreport: add uname info Emily Shaffer
2020-03-02 23:04           ` [PATCH v9 5/5] bugreport: add compiler info Emily Shaffer
2020-03-03 11:46             ` Danh Doan
2020-03-03 14:07             ` Junio C Hamano
2020-03-04 21:39             ` Johannes Schindelin
2020-03-23 21:27               ` Emily Shaffer

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