From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from second.openwall.net (second.openwall.net [193.110.157.125]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F18FC05027 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2023 11:18:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 3887 invoked by uid 550); 2 Feb 2023 11:18:29 -0000 Mailing-List: contact kernel-hardening-help@lists.openwall.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-ID: Received: (qmail 18260 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2023 03:25:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1675308306; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=iY/OQt8yhAuJl9finL5LdlRPRN18tAZGyT7vixhBhhY=; b=JeuQCWKjFTRMNvFK9NtRLZ2vuluv9pigLDy586eGy+W/D0SH4T98xrFh9je3zKyKZCFofB 8x5/pc7nodkXicwaKksxjZ6OSUmnNiU2pdl2ySL/Acxgi6eEu/kOGh3d8T6Pi5PUMoWyTw TXa4pswdUM9i3pTLWMYitzNRsl2/8pA= X-MC-Unique: wS7UbJogOyKoC_HYOb4Irw-1 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iY/OQt8yhAuJl9finL5LdlRPRN18tAZGyT7vixhBhhY=; b=Ls/dBDjie1yHFZkGrVOn3byJIW6hm5IYaqWJ6w6AMCW4x2McZVS1ba/2txrD2LV+40 krnhl+/t+Mhwhe9l8mV4elReukCYvabSTRVqs3dm2v1+YfcEgNqTRC7OfeJhQYq/AsXp Koc+C/Ig3OxPXCmUalFKERNWWZmkXcWK2NNDog1CLrJ7D1AowFQBkdHd7a7Oqd56Xaly y7dWko8UmZ2IOvB/UUqKi2egz+MKShULjnac/ob+aGKkyMJEDn1eEWsVWgS/iUWaW79N 8wTI0cN12Tyfeln8eVQL7wJZABgrlVBToTdDH1WfvgXd3/0iAKrvi7ULNBYXwd6BOHdY 72jA== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKURX3nnyoThwxqrvgVk/vRSZHrvwTgl3pHEYKq4s9oKwPUKSZyi Jtu7C+mWweF9yq/uAAR6PxxPvGMO6gRejrv7+EYC23qgRfzbOazVxPZ+YM7EONLFhLNy5f+VWJh Exq5QRX/OpA77wXEZbubpzwHvV5IS7OjnTw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ecd0:b0:196:8445:56be with SMTP id a16-20020a170902ecd000b00196844556bemr5788465plh.42.1675308302933; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 19:25:02 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/pvefWS1/CpqW1NscmlurIGYYGDzwh8/dBgY5gfye1noE+4RvwU+vANRnhJEPiWLcmieADdw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:ecd0:b0:196:8445:56be with SMTP id a16-20020a170902ecd000b00196844556bemr5788421plh.42.1675308302560; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 19:25:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2023 11:24:51 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.6.1 Subject: Re: Linux guest kernel threat model for Confidential Computing To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Christophe de Dinechin Dupont de Dinechin Cc: Christophe de Dinechin , James Bottomley , "Reshetova, Elena" , Leon Romanovsky , Greg Kroah-Hartman , "Shishkin, Alexander" , "Shutemov, Kirill" , "Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan" , "Kleen, Andi" , "Hansen, Dave" , Thomas Gleixner , Peter Zijlstra , "Wunner, Lukas" , Mika Westerberg , "Poimboe, Josh" , "aarcange@redhat.com" , Cfir Cohen , Marc Orr , "jbachmann@google.com" , "pgonda@google.com" , "keescook@chromium.org" , James Morris , Michael Kelley , "Lange, Jon" , "linux-coco@lists.linux.dev" , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Kernel Hardening References: <702f22df28e628d41babcf670c909f1fa1bb3c0c.camel@linux.ibm.com> <220b0be95a8c733f0a6eeddc08e37977ee21d518.camel@linux.ibm.com> <261bc99edc43990eecb1aac4fe8005cedc495c20.camel@linux.ibm.com> <20230131123033-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <6BCC3285-ACA3-4E38-8811-1A91C9F03852@redhat.com> <20230201055412-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> From: Jason Wang In-Reply-To: <20230201055412-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 在 2023/2/1 19:01, Michael S. Tsirkin 写道: > On Wed, Feb 01, 2023 at 11:52:27AM +0100, Christophe de Dinechin Dupont de Dinechin wrote: >> >>> On 31 Jan 2023, at 18:39, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 04:14:29PM +0100, Christophe de Dinechin wrote: >>>> Finally, security considerations that apply irrespective of whether the >>>> platform is confidential or not are also outside of the scope of this >>>> document. This includes topics ranging from timing attacks to social >>>> engineering. >>> Why are timing attacks by hypervisor on the guest out of scope? >> Good point. >> >> I was thinking that mitigation against timing attacks is the same >> irrespective of the source of the attack. However, because the HV >> controls CPU time allocation, there are presumably attacks that >> are made much easier through the HV. Those should be listed. > Not just that, also because it can and does emulate some devices. > For example, are disk encryption systems protected against timing of > disk accesses? > This is why some people keep saying "forget about emulated devices, require > passthrough, include devices in the trust zone". One problem is that the device could be yet another emulated one that is running in the SmartNIC/DPU itself. Thanks