* Questions about my idea (for gsoc) @ 2019-04-01 16:19 Andrea Laisa 2019-04-01 17:16 ` Greg KH 2019-04-01 19:49 ` Valdis Klētnieks 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Andrea Laisa @ 2019-04-01 16:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kernelnewbies Hi! I'm a student that want to do a google summer of code with you during this summer. My idea is to write a Linux driver for a proprietary network protocol used by the outdoor Gemtek antennas(which are essentially a LTE modem) to communicate over ethernet+LLC to the indoor Gemtek Access Points. My goal is to allow anyone to use any Linux-based router (like a Turris Omnia/openwrt) instead of a Gemtek Access Point. I think it's a great idea but I have some questions. -In which area my idea is located? networking? -Should the idea implemented as Linux driver or as userspace program? _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Questions about my idea (for gsoc) 2019-04-01 16:19 Questions about my idea (for gsoc) Andrea Laisa @ 2019-04-01 17:16 ` Greg KH [not found] ` <4d84791d-c866-da7c-7036-27b217a8062b@studenti.unimi.it> 2019-04-01 19:49 ` Valdis Klētnieks 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Greg KH @ 2019-04-01 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrea Laisa; +Cc: kernelnewbies On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 06:19:12PM +0200, Andrea Laisa wrote: > Hi! > > I'm a student that want to do a google summer of code with you during this > summer. Who is "you" here? What project specifically are you looking to apply to that asked you to post on the kernelnewbies list? > My idea is to write a Linux driver for a proprietary network protocol used > by the outdoor Gemtek antennas(which are essentially a LTE modem) to > communicate over ethernet+LLC to the indoor Gemtek Access Points. My goal is > to allow anyone to use any Linux-based router (like a Turris Omnia/openwrt) > instead of a Gemtek Access Point. > > I think it's a great idea but I have some questions. > > -In which area my idea is located? networking? > -Should the idea implemented as Linux driver or as userspace program? Step back and answer these questions: - do you have documentation for how this protocol works? - do you have access to hardware where you could test these kernel changes? If you don't have that, then this might not be the best project to work on :( thanks, greg k-h _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <4d84791d-c866-da7c-7036-27b217a8062b@studenti.unimi.it>]
* Re: Questions about my idea (for gsoc) [not found] ` <4d84791d-c866-da7c-7036-27b217a8062b@studenti.unimi.it> @ 2019-04-01 18:37 ` Andrea Laisa 2019-04-01 18:53 ` Bharath Vedartham 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Andrea Laisa @ 2019-04-01 18:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kernelnewbies I'm not sure what project i'm looking to apply, maybe a netdev driver? Or two network protocol driver with a userspace daemon/utilities to control the antenna? Or just a userspace daemon/utilities. I don't have a clear idea where I should write the code that controls the antenna. Il 01/04/19 20:28, Andrea Laisa ha scritto: > Il 01/04/19 19:16, Greg KH ha scritto: >> Who is "you" here? What project specifically are you looking to apply >> to that asked you to post on the kernelnewbies list? > > As "you" I mean all linux kernel hacker. > > > Il 01/04/19 19:16, Greg KH ha scritto: >> - do you have documentation for how this protocol works? >> - do you have access to hardware where you could test these kernel >> changes? > > Yes, I have access to my home antenna (and access point), but I don't > have any tyoe of official documentation because it doesn't exist or I > doesnt't found it, > > I have sniffed my network traffic between the access point and the > antenna and I discovered(with wireshark) that they use a custom > protocol over LCC (dsap 0x40 and 0x10) to setup the connection to my > ISP via LTE. After the setup the AP routes the LAN network traffic to > the antenna as expected over a 802.1q-tagged IP packet(with VLAN > ID=1121). > > Although I don't have access to the protocol specifications, I'm going > to reverse engineering the protocol! > _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Questions about my idea (for gsoc) 2019-04-01 18:37 ` Andrea Laisa @ 2019-04-01 18:53 ` Bharath Vedartham 2019-04-01 19:43 ` Andrea Laisa 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Bharath Vedartham @ 2019-04-01 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrea Laisa; +Cc: kernelnewbies On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 08:37:51PM +0200, Andrea Laisa wrote: > I'm not sure what project i'm looking to apply, maybe a netdev driver? Or > two network protocol driver with a userspace daemon/utilities to control the > antenna? Or just a userspace daemon/utilities. > I don't have a clear idea where I should write the code that controls the > antenna. > I think you want to apply for Gsoc for the linux foundation. Go check out this website for more details. https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/gsoc/google-summer-code-2019 The deadline for submitting your application is April 9th! > Il 01/04/19 20:28, Andrea Laisa ha scritto: > >Il 01/04/19 19:16, Greg KH ha scritto: > >>Who is "you" here? What project specifically are you looking to apply > >>to that asked you to post on the kernelnewbies list? > > > >As "you" I mean all linux kernel hacker. "You" should mean an organisation like the Linux foundation, strace etc. Please be more specific on that. > > > > > >Il 01/04/19 19:16, Greg KH ha scritto: > >> - do you have documentation for how this protocol works? > >> - do you have access to hardware where you could test these kernel > >> changes? > > > >Yes, I have access to my home antenna (and access point), but I don't have > >any tyoe of official documentation because it doesn't exist or I doesnt't > >found it, > > > >I have sniffed my network traffic between the access point and the antenna > >and I discovered(with wireshark) that they use a custom protocol over LCC > >(dsap 0x40 and 0x10) to setup the connection to my ISP via LTE. After the > >setup the AP routes the LAN network traffic to the antenna as expected > >over a 802.1q-tagged IP packet(with VLAN ID=1121). > > > >Although I don't have access to the protocol specifications, I'm going to > >reverse engineering the protocol! > > You have stated that the protocol is proprietary? Could you give more info on your wireshark output. If the protocol is proprietary, then it would be really difficult for you to write a driver for it. Reversing engineering a protocol would take you months to figure it out. I don't Gsoc would be possible for you right now on this idea. If your interested check out the other ideas in the link above. Also the link above has explained on how to propose your own idea for a Gsoc project. Please do check it out! Also try reaching out to the company to see if they already support this protocol on linux.(Probably not because it is proprietary). Thanks! Bharath > > _______________________________________________ > Kernelnewbies mailing list > Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org > https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Questions about my idea (for gsoc) 2019-04-01 18:53 ` Bharath Vedartham @ 2019-04-01 19:43 ` Andrea Laisa 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Andrea Laisa @ 2019-04-01 19:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: kernelnewbies On 4/1/19 8:53 PM, Bharath Vedartham wrote: > On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 08:37:51PM +0200, Andrea Laisa wrote: >> I'm not sure what project i'm looking to apply, maybe a netdev driver? Or >> two network protocol driver with a userspace daemon/utilities to control the >> antenna? Or just a userspace daemon/utilities. >> I don't have a clear idea where I should write the code that controls the >> antenna. >> > I think you want to apply for Gsoc for the linux foundation. Go check > out this website for more details. > https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/gsoc/google-summer-code-2019 > The deadline for submitting your application is April 9th! I have already read the page and tried to contact the org admins but they seem to be unreacheble >> Il 01/04/19 20:28, Andrea Laisa ha scritto: >>> Il 01/04/19 19:16, Greg KH ha scritto: >>>> Who is "you" here? What project specifically are you looking to apply >>>> to that asked you to post on the kernelnewbies list? >>> As "you" I mean all linux kernel hacker. > "You" should mean an organisation like the Linux foundation, strace etc. > Please be more specific on that. I mean the linux foundation. >>> >>> Il 01/04/19 19:16, Greg KH ha scritto: >>>> - do you have documentation for how this protocol works? >>>> - do you have access to hardware where you could test these kernel >>>> changes? >>> Yes, I have access to my home antenna (and access point), but I don't have >>> any tyoe of official documentation because it doesn't exist or I doesnt't >>> found it, >>> >>> I have sniffed my network traffic between the access point and the antenna >>> and I discovered(with wireshark) that they use a custom protocol over LCC >>> (dsap 0x40 and 0x10) to setup the connection to my ISP via LTE. After the >>> setup the AP routes the LAN network traffic to the antenna as expected >>> over a 802.1q-tagged IP packet(with VLAN ID=1121). >>> >>> Although I don't have access to the protocol specifications, I'm going to >>> reverse engineering the protocol! >>> > You have stated that the protocol is proprietary? Could you give more > info on your wireshark output. If the protocol is proprietary, then it > would be really difficult for you to write a driver for it. Reversing > engineering a protocol would take you months to figure it out. I don't > Gsoc would be possible for you right now on this idea. If your interested check out > the other ideas in the link above. > Also the link above has explained on how to propose your own idea for a > Gsoc project. Please do check it out! I'm not sure if it's proprietary but I wasn't able to find the specs of the protocol. Wireshark has failed to recognize the inner data in the LLC pdu. the LLCs has 0x40 or 0x10 has SSAP. The OUI of the mac addresses are "sequans communications". I suspect the LLC PDUs are used to setup the antenna and get the data about the radio status. The packet sent from/to the LAN from/to the internet are encapsuled in 802.1q(using VLAN id=1121). I'm confident the protocol is not too hard to figure it out > Also try reaching out to the company to see if they already support this > protocol on linux.(Probably not because it is proprietary). I will do it! > Thanks! > Bharath >> _______________________________________________ >> Kernelnewbies mailing list >> Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org >> https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Questions about my idea (for gsoc) 2019-04-01 16:19 Questions about my idea (for gsoc) Andrea Laisa 2019-04-01 17:16 ` Greg KH @ 2019-04-01 19:49 ` Valdis Klētnieks 2019-04-01 20:51 ` Cindy-Sue Causey 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Valdis Klētnieks @ 2019-04-01 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrea Laisa; +Cc: kernelnewbies On Mon, 01 Apr 2019 18:19:12 +0200, Andrea Laisa said: > My idea is to write a Linux driver for a proprietary network protocol > used by the outdoor Gemtek antennas(which are essentially a LTE modem) This may be a legal mine field. To create a *usable* Linux driver, you'll need to have one that's free of licensing restrictions. If Gemtek claims one or more patents on the protocol, you may be unable to implement the protocol without dealing with the licensing issues. And I'm reasonably sure that Gemtek won't be too interested in helping you write the driver, because its existence would cut into their sales of access points. Note that this is *different* than the question of reverse engineering hardware or software for interoperability. Patents cover any use whatsoever of the patented intellectual property, and if you reverse engineer and then implement, you can't claim accidental infringement (which happens a lot, especially if the patent ofice is lax on enforcing the "non-obvious" requirement) and you're squarely in willful infringement territory, which in the US can get you hit with triple damages... (Note - I am not a laywer, just somebody who reads enough about intellectual property law to know that anytime you see "proprietary", you are *guaranteed* to hit some sort of intellectual property law issue. _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Questions about my idea (for gsoc) 2019-04-01 19:49 ` Valdis Klētnieks @ 2019-04-01 20:51 ` Cindy-Sue Causey 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Cindy-Sue Causey @ 2019-04-01 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kernel Newbies On 4/1/19, Valdis Klētnieks <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote: > On Mon, 01 Apr 2019 18:19:12 +0200, Andrea Laisa said: > >> My idea is to write a Linux driver for a proprietary network protocol >> used by the outdoor Gemtek antennas(which are essentially a LTE modem) > > This may be a legal mine field. To create a *usable* Linux driver, you'll > need > to have one that's free of licensing restrictions. If Gemtek claims one or > more patents on the protocol, you may be unable to implement the protocol > without dealing with the licensing issues. > > And I'm reasonably sure that Gemtek won't be too interested in helping you > write the driver, because its existence would cut into their sales of access > points. I was thinking possibly pretty much the same thing. The hcfmodem/hsfmodem dialup modem family is what comes to mind. I'm online right this second k/t Puppy Linux. If it wasn't for their old Wary5.5, I'd probably still be offline fighting trying to get something working... and that's after YEARS of experience attempting exactly that. :) Yes, I know... Maybe Gemtek would say, "SURE, we'll help you (take money out of our pockets)." If they don't, it could possibly just evolve into another hsfmodem kind of deal. That has always sounded like it generated a lot of static from both sides, the users and the proprietary owners, with the Developers out there in the middle. Things have FINALLY lightened up these many years later. I assume that's likely only because there are comparatively few of us on dialup now, e.g. my local hometown provider occasionally hints that mine might be *almost* the only dialup account they serve. They once confessed that "my" server gets completely forgotten while it sits off in a corner somewhere. :) In a way, this Gemtek thing sounds like there might be a WHOLE lot more money at stake than there was with old $10, $20, even $50 dialup modems. That would certainly amplify any potentially anticipated opposition in a case like this. Cindy :) -- * runs with birdseed * _______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
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2019-04-01 16:19 Questions about my idea (for gsoc) Andrea Laisa
2019-04-01 17:16 ` Greg KH
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2019-04-01 18:37 ` Andrea Laisa
2019-04-01 18:53 ` Bharath Vedartham
2019-04-01 19:43 ` Andrea Laisa
2019-04-01 19:49 ` Valdis Klētnieks
2019-04-01 20:51 ` Cindy-Sue Causey
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