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From: Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>
To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
Cc: Joel Fernandes <joelaf@google.com>,
	Barret Rhoden <brho@google.com>,
	ksummit <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Jonathan Nieder <jrn@google.com>,
	Tomasz Figa <tfiga@chromium.org>,
	Han-Wen Nienhuys <hanwen@google.com>,
	Theodore Tso <tytso@google.com>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Dmitry Torokhov <dtor@chromium.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Allowing something Change-Id (or something like it) in kernel commits
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:29:53 -0700
Message-ID: <CACT4Y+aMkb4OTPwbXP1U8wtoV2oaLh+P-FoxG9N5m63kt-kGyw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190826230206.GC28066@mit.edu>

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:02 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 02:35:33PM -0700, Doug Anderson wrote:
> > * This requires extra tooling that I think nobody will adopt.  People
> > today already (accidentally) adopt Change-Id in the non-discardable
> > portion.  I think it would be easier to get everyone currently
> > removing Change-Id to start including it again than it will be to get
> > everyone to change their tools to move it to the discardable portion.
>
> The reason why people Change-Id's exist in commits today is because of
> tooling which is distributed as part of Gerrit.  That's why people are
> deeply suspicious of any solution that involves Change-Id in the
> non-discarded portion --- because the majority of Gerrit servers up
> until now are behind corporate firewalls and since Gerrit servers have
> robots.txt files, most Change-Id tend to be useless.
>
> If we come up with new tooling which is more useful, people will use
> it.  If it's not useful and doesn't makes life easier, people won't.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 03:06:43PM -0700, Doug Anderson wrote:
> > 2. If, as I expect, Change-Id as part of the patch stays NAKed then I
> > will modify the tools I use to post upstream (currently patman) to
> > encode the Change-Id.  My naive proposal would be:
> >
> > Message-Id: ChangeId-YYYY-MMDD-HHMMSS-PatchNum
> >
> > If I try this and it works for me then I will post out and suggest
> > that any other like-minded people encode Change-Id into Message-Id in
> > a similar way.
>
> ... and I would expect patches with this would get NACK'ed because
> they would be just as useless as Change-Id's are perceived to be
> today.  People who are gaming the rules will tend not to looked upon
> favorably; the same will apply to their patches.
>
> BTW, the Message-Id you've listed above is not legal, per RFC-5322.  A
> msg-id has to look like a e-mail address (left-hand-side@example.com).
> So something like this is legal as a message id:
>
> I3268f9036512c4378cde1da37e0612b43ed4d384@linux-review.googlesource.com
>
> ... and indeed, that's more useful, because it tells us how to
> interpret I3268f9036512c4378cde1da37e0612b43ed4d384 --- it's a
> Change-Id assigned by the linux-review.googlesource.com Gerrit server.
>
> In contrast a bare "I3268f9036512c4378cde1da37e0612b43ed4d384" is
> going to be presumed to be useless.  And in fact, a Google search for
> this ID returns *nothing*.  Yet visiting the link
> https://linux-review.googlesource.com/c/1158 actually returns
> something useful.   That's why the latter is superior to the former.
>
> In summary,
>
> Not useful: (and will be probably nacked)
>
> Change-Id: I3268f9036512c4378cde1da37e0612b43ed4d384
> Message-Id: I3268f9036512c4378cde1da37e0612b43ed4d384
>
> Useful:
>
> Link: https://linux-review.googlesource.com/c/1158
> Link: https://lkml.kernel.org/r/20190826204407.17759-1-daniel.lezcano@linaro.org
>
> Not as useful: (people will prefer the Link example above)
>
> Message-Id: 20190826204407.17759-1-daniel.lezcano@linaro.org


Hi,

A somewhat related point re UUID/Change-ID.
For syzbot (or any other bug tracking system) we want to associate
bugs with fixes. It turned out there is no good identity of a change
that we could use. Commit hash is an obvious first thing to consider,
but (1) it changes in linux-next, (2) sometimes the change is not
committed yet when we do the association, (3) it is different when
backported to LTS (so not possible to say if a fix is in that stable
tree or not).
We decided to use commit subject, which works to some degree, but also
has problems: (1) not necessary unique, (2) sometimes people change
subject during backporting (e.g. prepend some prefix), (3) has all the
same problems of email clients messing with text (e.g. I can't issue
#syz fix command for loo long commit subjects with my email client).
Some real UUID/Change-ID would solve all of these problems by giving
us capability to refer to changes rather than a commit in a particular
tree only.

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-08-22 23:39 Doug Anderson
2019-08-23  0:03 ` Brendan Higgins
2019-08-23  0:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23  0:30   ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23  0:43     ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-23  0:45       ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23  1:05         ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23  1:09           ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23  1:36         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-23  2:58           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23  3:03             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23 13:15               ` Sean Paul
2019-08-23 15:18                 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-23 15:31                   ` Sean Paul
2019-08-23 15:48                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 16:19                       ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23 16:35                         ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 16:45                           ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:54                             ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 18:00                               ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 19:08                                 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 19:15                                   ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 19:23                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 19:31                                       ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-24 16:53                                   ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:46                           ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23 19:17                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 19:38                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2019-08-23 21:15                                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 21:25                                   ` Mark Brown
2019-08-24 23:13                                   ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-25  7:09                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 22:05                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28  8:50                                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 20:02                               ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-24 16:34                                 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-24 18:11                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-24 23:04                                     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-25  3:11                                       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 10:51                                         ` Mark Brown
2019-09-09  8:14                                           ` Michael Ellerman
2019-09-09 12:09                                             ` Mark Brown
2019-08-26 17:13                                     ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 17:30                                       ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-26 21:35                                         ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 21:51                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 22:06                                             ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 22:19                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 23:02                                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-26 23:11                                             ` Doug Anderson
2019-09-16 14:11                                               ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-16 17:43                                               ` Al Viro
2019-09-16 18:05                                                 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 23:43                                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28 12:34                                               ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-27  0:29                                             ` Dmitry Vyukov [this message]
2019-08-27  6:06                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 13:24                                                 ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27 13:48                                                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 14:01                                                     ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-27 14:09                                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 15:33                                                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 15:42                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 18:55                                                           ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2019-08-27 19:53                                                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 21:34                                                               ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-27 21:38                                                                 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-28  9:08                                                                 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-28  9:25                                                                   ` Jani Nikula
2019-08-28 10:04                                                                   ` Martin K. Petersen
2019-08-28 10:53                                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28 12:46                                                                       ` Martin K. Petersen
2019-08-28 10:42                                                                   ` Mark Brown
2019-08-28 11:41                                                                     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-28 12:22                                                                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-28 12:38                                                                   ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-28 13:58                                                                     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-28 20:39                                                                       ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-28 20:46                                                                         ` Johannes Berg
2019-08-28 21:00                                                                           ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-28 22:15                                                                         ` Rob Herring
2019-08-27 17:34                                                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2019-08-27 18:50                                                         ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-27 14:06                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27  7:33                                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2019-08-27 13:30                                                 ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27 14:28                                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-27 15:06                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 15:25                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-28  8:57                                                         ` Dan Carpenter
2019-08-23 15:49                     ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 15:54                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 15:59                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 16:38                           ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:50                             ` Andrew Lunn
2019-08-23 17:50                               ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 18:10               ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2019-08-26 22:19               ` Paul Mackerras
2019-08-27  7:02                 ` Stephen Rothwell
2019-08-23  9:09             ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-23 12:48               ` Bhaskar Chowdhury
2019-08-23  1:01   ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23  1:07   ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23  1:18     ` Joel Fernandes
2019-09-05  8:12 ` Eric Wong

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