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From: Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Joel Fernandes <joelaf@google.com>,
	Barret Rhoden <brho@google.com>,
	ksummit <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Jonathan Nieder <jrn@google.com>,
	Tomasz Figa <tfiga@chromium.org>,
	Han-Wen Nienhuys <hanwen@google.com>,
	Theodore Tso <tytso@google.com>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Dmitry Torokhov <dtor@chromium.org>,
	Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Allowing something Change-Id (or something like it) in kernel commits
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 17:30:14 -0700
Message-ID: <CAOesGMgYisp--bwVK0_cTMqaUM_TaQ-qwhNDceBOsudBPHWR7g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=whFbgy4RXG11c_=S7O-248oWmwB_aZOcWzWMVh3w7=RCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 5:17 PM Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 4:40 PM Doug Anderson <dianders@chromium.org> wrote:
> >
> > The Linux kernel has always viewed these Change-Id tags as obnoxious
> > and useless spam.  Anyone who accidentally leaves a Change-Id in their
> > patch when posting to the mailing list is told to please re-post their
> > patch without the Change-Id.  In this email, I will attempt to argue
> > that the Linux kernel ought to relax this restriction and allow
> > (possibly even encourage) Change-Ids.
>
> No.
>
> Not without some ground rules.
>
> > To begin with, let me make sure we're on the same page about what
> > Change-Ids are.  As I understand it:
> >
> > * A change ID is much alike a UUID.  It is locally generated on a
> > developer's computer and is (in theory) unique across the universe.
>
> Completely irrelevant.
>
> The point of an UUID is not just that it's unique, but THAT YOU CAN
> LOOK SOMETHING UP USING IT!
>
> A "change ID" that I can't use to look anything up with is completely
> pointless and should be removed from kernel history.
>
> But if you have something unique that is actually useful for looking
> things up, then by all means. But it needs to be useful for
> _everybody_.
>
> > * When a developer keeps the same Change-Id across two patches they
> > are making the assertion that the two patches are either the same or
> > should be treated as two versions of the same logical change.
>
> .. and we have better ways to do that.
>
> For example, we are actively encouraging things like message ID's
> (which are _also_ a form of locally generated UUID, they just are more
> than the silly purely numerical one).
>
> That gives you the origin of something, but it also gives you the
> development history and context.
>
> But note that how when it comes to message ID's we encourage them in a
> form that actually also helps look that information up, ie the
> preferred form isn't just the message ID (although that exists), it's
> a link like
>
>     Link: https://lore.kernel.org/r/20190723065733.4899-5-leon@kernel.org
>
> instead of
>
>    Message-ID: 20190723065733.4899-5-leon@kernel.org
>
> even though technically they have just as much actual information in theory.
>
> Do you see people complaining about that kind of UUID? No.  Because it
> gives useful information to the project, and when something happens,
> people can look things up and _use_ that kind of UUID.

For the actual open projects, the answer to this might be relative
easy: Most gerrit instances can feed a mailing list with emails of
both the initial patch, and later comments.

Said emails would obviously have a Message-ID, and if the list is
added to lore, it can be referenced there.

Note, even if the Change-Id had a full URL, there would be no archival
guarantee in the same way as lore gives us, so that approach alone
isn't useful. A URL to a "forever" mailing list archive seems like the
most stable possible reference.

This doesn't address the full issue Doug was looking to solve, which
is the reverse mapping of "posted patch" to "previous version of the
patch". Patchwork tries to guess this, but it's best effort. I don't
have a great answer to this, besides possibly in-reply-to threading
and associating back that way via the email trail.


-Oloif

  reply index

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-08-22 23:39 Doug Anderson
2019-08-23  0:03 ` Brendan Higgins
2019-08-23  0:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23  0:30   ` Olof Johansson [this message]
2019-08-23  0:43     ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-23  0:45       ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23  1:05         ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23  1:09           ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23  1:36         ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-23  2:58           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23  3:03             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23 13:15               ` Sean Paul
2019-08-23 15:18                 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-23 15:31                   ` Sean Paul
2019-08-23 15:48                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 16:19                       ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23 16:35                         ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 16:45                           ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:54                             ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 18:00                               ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 19:08                                 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 19:15                                   ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 19:23                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 19:31                                       ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-24 16:53                                   ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:46                           ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23 19:17                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 19:38                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2019-08-23 21:15                                 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 21:25                                   ` Mark Brown
2019-08-24 23:13                                   ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-25  7:09                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 22:05                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28  8:50                                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 20:02                               ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-24 16:34                                 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-24 18:11                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-24 23:04                                     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-25  3:11                                       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 10:51                                         ` Mark Brown
2019-09-09  8:14                                           ` Michael Ellerman
2019-09-09 12:09                                             ` Mark Brown
2019-08-26 17:13                                     ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 17:30                                       ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-26 21:35                                         ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 21:51                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 22:06                                             ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 22:19                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 23:02                                           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-26 23:11                                             ` Doug Anderson
2019-09-16 14:11                                               ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-16 17:43                                               ` Al Viro
2019-09-16 18:05                                                 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 23:43                                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28 12:34                                               ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-27  0:29                                             ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27  6:06                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 13:24                                                 ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27 13:48                                                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 14:01                                                     ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-27 14:09                                                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 15:33                                                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 15:42                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 18:55                                                           ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2019-08-27 19:53                                                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 21:34                                                               ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-27 21:38                                                                 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-28  9:08                                                                 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-28  9:25                                                                   ` Jani Nikula
2019-08-28 10:04                                                                   ` Martin K. Petersen
2019-08-28 10:53                                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28 12:46                                                                       ` Martin K. Petersen
2019-08-28 10:42                                                                   ` Mark Brown
2019-08-28 11:41                                                                     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-28 12:22                                                                   ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-28 12:38                                                                   ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-28 13:58                                                                     ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-28 20:39                                                                       ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-28 20:46                                                                         ` Johannes Berg
2019-08-28 21:00                                                                           ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-28 22:15                                                                         ` Rob Herring
2019-08-27 17:34                                                       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2019-08-27 18:50                                                         ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-27 14:06                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27  7:33                                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2019-08-27 13:30                                                 ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27 14:28                                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-27 15:06                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 15:25                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-28  8:57                                                         ` Dan Carpenter
2019-08-23 15:49                     ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 15:54                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 15:59                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 16:38                           ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:50                             ` Andrew Lunn
2019-08-23 17:50                               ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 18:10               ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2019-08-26 22:19               ` Paul Mackerras
2019-08-27  7:02                 ` Stephen Rothwell
2019-08-23  9:09             ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-23 12:48               ` Bhaskar Chowdhury
2019-08-23  1:01   ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23  1:07   ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23  1:18     ` Joel Fernandes
2019-09-05  8:12 ` Eric Wong

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