From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2AFEC433E1 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:04:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B746520708 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:04:18 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="t4uNP1fY" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org B746520708 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7198828E; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:04:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VaENXACX30_U; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:04:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.linuxfoundation.org (lf-lists.osuosl.org [140.211.9.56]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B31A87E5A; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:04:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lf-lists.osuosl.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE40C1818; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:04:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91469C016F; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 23:05:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB2088A92; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 23:05:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Tbi--5jPEOS; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 23:05:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wr1-f46.google.com (mail-wr1-f46.google.com [209.85.221.46]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FE7988882; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 23:05:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wr1-f46.google.com with SMTP id f18so35010466wrs.0; Mon, 06 Jul 2020 16:05:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:cc:references:from:autocrypt:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n8WSN9OO6JhOeCOLUTvTw9tkEo0SsW93xx3ZZdZXMI0=; b=t4uNP1fYn/DHReNGk+z+aOSomulpnZvJb/3FC2AfFWFF4Sef1vc45vJ+rjsWKgFI+F /VdeeKzg1BDJL8sYxVoyd421IhRJgvmMvkZgD2aDuZCFicU1g0P6+FmclLiVm39jGywg dTfI0c7acnoU2SMjIZO7lNh1vxjxkgOaq/ljeNzSILFs++HGhRFj35HYvB2vl5yOJ54t TcV/PAd3L2OGXQIVCkT3iR2JFopblVRi1/lNiqhbWN0NrcbtZJuwwyWbHWFuZs7vLq64 +z0tec/IpCRc/Oj1U2jtfBmf5WG35Knyp8CF8Q45ATSVHAncjfMaPV23iknlltkzuFlW a/Sw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:cc:references:from:autocrypt:subject :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n8WSN9OO6JhOeCOLUTvTw9tkEo0SsW93xx3ZZdZXMI0=; b=bx7s/lMESZyY6j3d+3gOFiUuPSg19XK0bdz28mBWJYjOQ3jGyKNuqAjrMuvbo2X2Fj 6LydsfTFcaofndYtxlTMd8cRZhnCYlPI+1m+6L2Z2jWZzHpoU64yke90RImIt+5tE0+4 DaER3igSdN0RVLTu8/1vCb5hMYeCPL9cxGWPX71nJ1HgzuSv8oMa1oUAwt4Op9o5gkpL Vhftps0RIYfyln1D1YwF4rU3gymRVc3GDffFqnm+YB2zuXZIBc/exMEn6qSRqKJQ6mZa 5nVY4huvdxidn4BToon1VnX0Muk3g1rPpEFY2IObNT6zwDTdUZQuwYAjSI7e3QL9EcqV YAhw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530MiVfPYYEghW9GG0J4AYDOH3IkkgoLoQQLHzjyWxS+kTeKS1c7 AXA8mRBkS+uws8qRPNWfmR8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwMAv/rva34lQSp9P1OS5Iq4KaOvM/gVesHTFox3fcEvXJQTtyhz33re5Mh3bwjCAfr1p7ztA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:44c7:: with SMTP id z7mr54613087wrr.226.1594076717820; Mon, 06 Jul 2020 16:05:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.52] ([5.100.193.69]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g14sm23186818wrw.83.2020.07.06.16.05.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Jul 2020 16:05:17 -0700 (PDT) To: Steven Rostedt References: <159389297140.2210796.13590142254668787525.stgit@dwillia2-desk3.amr.corp.intel.com> <1cceba0f-c8ad-260d-9a09-5417bee32d50@gmail.com> <20200706181052.174c290a@oasis.local.home> <717030b7-ecba-2ca4-39ff-6a5a04a732d4@gmail.com> <20200706182819.3467fa32@oasis.local.home> From: Pavel Begunkov Autocrypt: addr=asml.silence@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFmKBOQBEAC76ZFxLAKpDw0bKQ8CEiYJRGn8MHTUhURL02/7n1t0HkKQx2K1fCXClbps bdwSHrhOWdW61pmfMbDYbTj6ZvGRvhoLWfGkzujB2wjNcbNTXIoOzJEGISHaPf6E2IQx1ik9 6uqVkK1OMb7qRvKH0i7HYP4WJzYbEWVyLiAxUj611mC9tgd73oqZ2pLYzGTqF2j6a/obaqha +hXuWTvpDQXqcOZJXIW43atprH03G1tQs7VwR21Q1eq6Yvy2ESLdc38EqCszBfQRMmKy+cfp W3U9Mb1w0L680pXrONcnlDBCN7/sghGeMHjGKfNANjPc+0hzz3rApPxpoE7HC1uRiwC4et83 CKnncH1l7zgeBT9Oa3qEiBlaa1ZCBqrA4dY+z5fWJYjMpwI1SNp37RtF8fKXbKQg+JuUjAa9 Y6oXeyEvDHMyJYMcinl6xCqCBAXPHnHmawkMMgjr3BBRzODmMr+CPVvnYe7BFYfoajzqzq+h EyXSl3aBf0IDPTqSUrhbmjj5OEOYgRW5p+mdYtY1cXeK8copmd+fd/eTkghok5li58AojCba jRjp7zVOLOjDlpxxiKhuFmpV4yWNh5JJaTbwCRSd04sCcDNlJj+TehTr+o1QiORzc2t+N5iJ NbILft19Izdn8U39T5oWiynqa1qCLgbuFtnYx1HlUq/HvAm+kwARAQABtDFQYXZlbCBCZWd1 bmtvdiAoc2lsZW5jZSkgPGFzbWwuc2lsZW5jZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+iQJOBBMBCAA4FiEE+6Ju PTjTbx479o3OWt5b1Glr+6UFAlmKBOQCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ Wt5b1Glr+6WxZA//QueaKHzgdnOikJ7NA/Vq8FmhRlwgtP0+E+w93kL+ZGLzS/cUCIjn2f4Q Mcutj2Neg0CcYPX3b2nJiKr5Vn0rjJ/suiaOa1h1KzyNTOmxnsqE5fmxOf6C6x+NKE18I5Jy xzLQoktbdDVA7JfB1itt6iWSNoOTVcvFyvfe5ggy6FSCcP+m1RlR58XxVLH+qlAvxxOeEr/e aQfUzrs7gqdSd9zQGEZo0jtuBiB7k98t9y0oC9Jz0PJdvaj1NZUgtXG9pEtww3LdeXP/TkFl HBSxVflzeoFaj4UAuy8+uve7ya/ECNCc8kk0VYaEjoVrzJcYdKP583iRhOLlZA6HEmn/+Gh9 4orG67HNiJlbFiW3whxGizWsrtFNLsSP1YrEReYk9j1SoUHHzsu+ZtNfKuHIhK0sU07G1OPN 2rDLlzUWR9Jc22INAkhVHOogOcc5ajMGhgWcBJMLCoi219HlX69LIDu3Y34uIg9QPZIC2jwr 24W0kxmK6avJr7+n4o8m6sOJvhlumSp5TSNhRiKvAHB1I2JB8Q1yZCIPzx+w1ALxuoWiCdwV M/azguU42R17IuBzK0S3hPjXpEi2sK/k4pEPnHVUv9Cu09HCNnd6BRfFGjo8M9kZvw360gC1 reeMdqGjwQ68o9x0R7NBRrtUOh48TDLXCANAg97wjPoy37dQE7e5Ag0EWYoE5AEQAMWS+aBV IJtCjwtfCOV98NamFpDEjBMrCAfLm7wZlmXy5I6o7nzzCxEw06P2rhzp1hIqkaab1kHySU7g dkpjmQ7Jjlrf6KdMP87mC/Hx4+zgVCkTQCKkIxNE76Ff3O9uTvkWCspSh9J0qPYyCaVta2D1 Sq5HZ8WFcap71iVO1f2/FEHKJNz/YTSOS/W7dxJdXl2eoj3gYX2UZNfoaVv8OXKaWslZlgqN jSg9wsTv1K73AnQKt4fFhscN9YFxhtgD/SQuOldE5Ws4UlJoaFX/yCoJL3ky2kC0WFngzwRF Yo6u/KON/o28yyP+alYRMBrN0Dm60FuVSIFafSqXoJTIjSZ6olbEoT0u17Rag8BxnxryMrgR dkccq272MaSS0eOC9K2rtvxzddohRFPcy/8bkX+t2iukTDz75KSTKO+chce62Xxdg62dpkZX xK+HeDCZ7gRNZvAbDETr6XI63hPKi891GeZqvqQVYR8e+V2725w+H1iv3THiB1tx4L2bXZDI DtMKQ5D2RvCHNdPNcZeldEoJwKoA60yg6tuUquvsLvfCwtrmVI2rL2djYxRfGNmFMrUDN1Xq F3xozA91q3iZd9OYi9G+M/OA01husBdcIzj1hu0aL+MGg4Gqk6XwjoSxVd4YT41kTU7Kk+/I 5/Nf+i88ULt6HanBYcY/+Daeo/XFABEBAAGJAjYEGAEIACAWIQT7om49ONNvHjv2jc5a3lvU aWv7pQUCWYoE5AIbDAAKCRBa3lvUaWv7pfmcEACKTRQ28b1y5ztKuLdLr79+T+LwZKHjX++P 4wKjEOECCcB6KCv3hP+J2GCXDOPZvdg/ZYZafqP68Yy8AZqkfa4qPYHmIdpODtRzZSL48kM8 LRzV8Rl7J3ItvzdBRxf4T/Zseu5U6ELiQdCUkPGsJcPIJkgPjO2ROG/ZtYa9DvnShNWPlp+R uPwPccEQPWO/NP4fJl2zwC6byjljZhW5kxYswGMLBwb5cDUZAisIukyAa8Xshdan6C2RZcNs rB3L7vsg/R8UCehxOH0C+NypG2GqjVejNZsc7bgV49EOVltS+GmGyY+moIzxsuLmT93rqyII 5rSbbcTLe6KBYcs24XEoo49Zm9oDA3jYvNpeYD8rDcnNbuZh9kTgBwFN41JHOPv0W2FEEWqe JsCwQdcOQ56rtezdCJUYmRAt3BsfjN3Jn3N6rpodi4Dkdli8HylM5iq4ooeb5VkQ7UZxbCWt UVMKkOCdFhutRmYp0mbv2e87IK4erwNHQRkHUkzbsuym8RVpAZbLzLPIYK/J3RTErL6Z99N2 m3J6pjwSJY/zNwuFPs9zGEnRO4g0BUbwGdbuvDzaq6/3OJLKohr5eLXNU3JkT+3HezydWm3W OPhauth7W0db74Qd49HXK0xe/aPrK+Cp+kU1HRactyNtF8jZQbhMCC8vMGukZtWaAwpjWiiH bA== Message-ID: <4592008a-16ee-d8c4-4ec3-5e36a268e5d6@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 02:03:36 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200706182819.3467fa32@oasis.local.home> Content-Language: en-US X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 07 Jul 2020 18:04:13 +0000 Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, tech-board-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [Tech-board-discuss] [PATCH] CodingStyle: Inclusive Terminology X-BeenThere: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org Sender: "Ksummit-discuss" On 07/07/2020 01:28, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 01:17:47 +0300 > Pavel Begunkov wrote: > >> Totally agree with you! But do we care then whether two _devices_ or _objects_ >> are slave-master? Can't see how it fundamentally differs. > > The term slave carries a lot more meaning than subordinate. I replied to > someone else but later realized that the person sent me their reply > offlist, so my reply to them was also offlist. What I told them was, > back in college (decades ago), when I first mentioned "master/slave" in > conversation (I think it was about hard drives), a person in that > conversation stated that those were not very nice terms to use. I blew > it off back then, but after listening to more people, I found that > using "slave" even to describe a device is not something that people > care to hear about. That's cultural, but honestly I've never seen such a person. I still don't understand, why having secondary or subordinate object belittling the owned side by not providing it the same rights and freedom is OK, but slave/master objects are not. Where is the line? > > And in actuality, does one device actually enslave another device? I > think that terminology is misleading to begin with. As mentioned, I do like good clear terminology, and if it conveys the idea better, etc., then it's worth to try. And IMHO that's the right reasoning that should be behind. Otherwise, for almost every word we can find a person seeing something subjectively offensive or at least bad in it. -- Pavel Begunkov _______________________________________________ Ksummit-discuss mailing list Ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-discuss