From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [90.155.50.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68F48EA4 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 09:50:03 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:References: In-Reply-To:Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=wxcLc2xA21fNz8xXsRTkYM0aU5sv+X7skVpdbQutxaU=; b=qcQtDQCBtHhxusIXYr2PUasAkE 6AVjLPoHZgu/kCNY3xQJnqRP3S4rQJYuRVVTLDp/VnSB3T5CPFPZ9QfTrmby1nQ6qhjvl7KiLab6H HVwVZqc50A6hSr1v0VF09Re4J38p/eUfcYwzsmaSADvxt0zY+xkJhw8N3E0hQdHegpZkYzP/wEjnt H8N5T0eMipz9BXYMntQnVmfp/D1F6HcDaJnVea0YM8jTo1dVmq/YjvXrpoy8ienpri1fcXr2IWfdN jtzouSm576PDrb9HXIABCGdxUubJI4YoglPnKRDV249qFyPkt4gPflXt8Hktau4DKLjuZTiSNvgFb 735MRgKw==; Received: from [2001:8b0:10b:1::3ae] (helo=u3832b3a9db3152.ant.amazon.com) by casper.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.94.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1o3aW6-005z8O-La; Tue, 21 Jun 2022 09:49:50 +0000 Message-ID: <687939f307792dc894f53a1238537dc799b1e437.camel@infradead.org> Subject: Re: [TECH TOPIC] Rust From: David Woodhouse To: Miguel Ojeda , ksummit , ksummit@lists.linux.dev Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 10:49:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="sha-256"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="=-I4eqSiNW2q8z76Ba1qpq" User-Agent: Evolution 3.36.5-0ubuntu1 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html --=-I4eqSiNW2q8z76Ba1qpq Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 2022-06-18 at 22:33 +0200, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > The effort to add Rust support to the kernel is ongoing. There has > been progress in different areas during the last year, and there are > several topics that could benefit from discussion: >=20 > - Dividing the `kernel` crate into pieces, dependency management > between internal crates, writing crates in the rest of the kernel > tree, etc. >=20 > - Whether to allow dependencies on external crates and vendoring of > useful third-party crates. >=20 > - Toolchain requirements in the future and status of Rust unstable feat= ures. >=20 This one is a constant pain point for me in another project which combines C and Rust code. We are constantly being told "of *course* that doesn't work; you haven't updated your Rust toolchain for a whole week!" It also makes bisection basically impossible at times, because during bisection we find that older code doesn't build with the *new* toolchain either. I think we need to set *very* clear rules and expectations about how many times a decade it's permitted to require a new rust toolchain. --=-I4eqSiNW2q8z76Ba1qpq Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEkQw ggYQMIID+KADAgECAhBNlCwQ1DvglAnFgS06KwZPMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAMIGIMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzETMBEGA1UECBMKTmV3IEplcnNleTEUMBIGA1UEBxMLSmVyc2V5IENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEuMCwGA1UEAxMlVVNFUlRydXN0IFJTQSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0 aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTAeFw0xODExMDIwMDAwMDBaFw0zMDEyMzEyMzU5NTlaMIGWMQswCQYDVQQG EwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYD VQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNlY3RpZ28gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50 aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKC AQEAyjztlApB/975Rrno1jvm2pK/KxBOqhq8gr2+JhwpKirSzZxQgT9tlC7zl6hn1fXjSo5MqXUf ItMltrMaXqcESJuK8dtK56NCSrq4iDKaKq9NxOXFmqXX2zN8HHGjQ2b2Xv0v1L5Nk1MQPKA19xeW QcpGEGFUUd0kN+oHox+L9aV1rjfNiCj3bJk6kJaOPabPi2503nn/ITX5e8WfPnGw4VuZ79Khj1YB rf24k5Ee1sLTHsLtpiK9OjG4iQRBdq6Z/TlVx/hGAez5h36bBJMxqdHLpdwIUkTqT8se3ed0PewD ch/8kHPo5fZl5u1B0ecpq/sDN/5sCG52Ds+QU5O5EwIDAQABo4IBZDCCAWAwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAU U3m/WqorSs9UgOHYm8Cd8rIDZsswHQYDVR0OBBYEFAnA8vwL2pTbX/4r36iZQs/J4K0AMA4GA1Ud DwEB/wQEAwIBhjASBgNVHRMBAf8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMCBggrBgEF BQcDBDARBgNVHSAECjAIMAYGBFUdIAAwUAYDVR0fBEkwRzBFoEOgQYY/aHR0cDovL2NybC51c2Vy dHJ1c3QuY29tL1VTRVJUcnVzdFJTQUNlcnRpZmljYXRpb25BdXRob3JpdHkuY3JsMHYGCCsGAQUF BwEBBGowaDA/BggrBgEFBQcwAoYzaHR0cDovL2NydC51c2VydHJ1c3QuY29tL1VTRVJUcnVzdFJT QUFkZFRydXN0Q0EuY3J0MCUGCCsGAQUFBzABhhlodHRwOi8vb2NzcC51c2VydHJ1c3QuY29tMA0G CSqGSIb3DQEBDAUAA4ICAQBBRHUAqznCFfXejpVtMnFojADdF9d6HBA4kMjjsb0XMZHztuOCtKF+ xswhh2GqkW5JQrM8zVlU+A2VP72Ky2nlRA1GwmIPgou74TZ/XTarHG8zdMSgaDrkVYzz1g3nIVO9 IHk96VwsacIvBF8JfqIs+8aWH2PfSUrNxP6Ys7U0sZYx4rXD6+cqFq/ZW5BUfClN/rhk2ddQXyn7 kkmka2RQb9d90nmNHdgKrwfQ49mQ2hWQNDkJJIXwKjYA6VUR/fZUFeCUisdDe/0ABLTI+jheXUV1 eoYV7lNwNBKpeHdNuO6Aacb533JlfeUHxvBz9OfYWUiXu09sMAviM11Q0DuMZ5760CdO2VnpsXP4 KxaYIhvqPqUMWqRdWyn7crItNkZeroXaecG03i3mM7dkiPaCkgocBg0EBYsbZDZ8bsG3a08LwEsL 1Ygz3SBsyECa0waq4hOf/Z85F2w2ZpXfP+w8q4ifwO90SGZZV+HR/Jh6rEaVPDRF/CEGVqR1hiuQ OZ1YL5ezMTX0ZSLwrymUE0pwi/KDaiYB15uswgeIAcA6JzPFf9pLkAFFWs1QNyN++niFhsM47qod x/PL+5jR87myx5uYdBEQkkDc+lKB1Wct6ucXqm2EmsaQ0M95QjTmy+rDWjkDYdw3Ms6mSWE3Bn7i 5ZgtwCLXgAIe5W8mybM2JzCCBhQwggT8oAMCAQICEQDGvhmWZ0DEAx0oURL6O6l+MA0GCSqGSIb3 DQEBCwUAMIGWMQswCQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYD VQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNlY3RpZ28g UlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTIyMDEwNzAw MDAwMFoXDTI1MDEwNjIzNTk1OVowJDEiMCAGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYTZHdtdzJAaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9y ZzCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBALQ3GpC2bomUqk+91wLYBzDMcCj5C9m6 oZaHwvmIdXftOgTbCJXADo6G9T7BBAebw2JV38EINgKpy/ZHh7htyAkWYVoFsFPrwHounto8xTsy SSePMiPlmIdQ10BcVSXMUJ3Juu16GlWOnAMJY2oYfEzmE7uT9YgcBqKCo65pTFmOnR/VVbjJk4K2 xE34GC2nAdUQkPFuyaFisicc6HRMOYXPuF0DuwITEKnjxgNjP+qDrh0db7PAjO1D4d5ftfrsf+kd RR4gKVGSk8Tz2WwvtLAroJM4nXjNPIBJNT4w/FWWc/5qPHJy2U+eITZ5LLE5s45mX2oPFknWqxBo bQZ8a9dsZ3dSPZBvE9ZrmtFLrVrN4eo1jsXgAp1+p7bkfqd3BgBEmfsYWlBXO8rVXfvPgLs32VdV NZxb/CDWPqBsiYv0Hv3HPsz07j5b+/cVoWqyHDKzkaVbxfq/7auNVRmPB3v5SWEsH8xi4Bez2V9U KxfYCnqsjp8RaC2/khxKt0A552Eaxnz/4ly/2C7wkwTQnBmdlFYhAflWKQ03Ufiu8t3iBE3VJbc2 5oMrglj7TRZrmKq3CkbFnX0fyulB+kHimrt6PIWn7kgyl9aelIl6vtbhMA+l0nfrsORMa4kobqQ5 C5rveVgmcIad67EDa+UqEKy/GltUwlSh6xy+TrK1tzDvAgMBAAGjggHMMIIByDAfBgNVHSMEGDAW gBQJwPL8C9qU21/+K9+omULPyeCtADAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUzMeDMcimo0oz8o1R1Nver3ZVpSkwDgYD VR0PAQH/BAQDAgWgMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwQGCCsGAQUFBwMC MEAGA1UdIAQ5MDcwNQYMKwYBBAGyMQECAQEBMCUwIwYIKwYBBQUHAgEWF2h0dHBzOi8vc2VjdGln by5jb20vQ1BTMFoGA1UdHwRTMFEwT6BNoEuGSWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuc2VjdGlnby5jb20vU2VjdGln b1JTQUNsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5jcmwwgYoGCCsGAQUFBwEB BH4wfDBVBggrBgEFBQcwAoZJaHR0cDovL2NydC5zZWN0aWdvLmNvbS9TZWN0aWdvUlNBQ2xpZW50 QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRTZWN1cmVFbWFpbENBLmNydDAjBggrBgEFBQcwAYYXaHR0cDovL29j c3Auc2VjdGlnby5jb20wHgYDVR0RBBcwFYETZHdtdzJAaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZzANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQsFAAOCAQEAyW6MUir5dm495teKqAQjDJwuFCi35h4xgnQvQ/fzPXmtR9t54rpmI2TfyvcKgOXp qa7BGXNFfh1JsqexVkIqZP9uWB2J+uVMD+XZEs/KYNNX2PvIlSPrzIB4Z2wyIGQpaPLlYflrrVFK v9CjT2zdqvy2maK7HKOQRt3BiJbVG5lRiwbbygldcALEV9ChWFfgSXvrWDZspnU3Gjw/rMHrGnql Htlyebp3pf3fSS9kzQ1FVtVIDrL6eqhTwJxe+pXSMMqFiN0whpBtXdyDjzBtQTaZJ7zTT/vlehc/ tDuqZwGHm/YJy883Ll+GP3NvOkgaRGWEuYWJJ6hFCkXYjyR9IzCCBhQwggT8oAMCAQICEQDGvhmW Z0DEAx0oURL6O6l+MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGWMQswCQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3Jl YXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0 ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNlY3RpZ28gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJl IEVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTIyMDEwNzAwMDAwMFoXDTI1MDEwNjIzNTk1OVowJDEiMCAGCSqGSIb3DQEJ ARYTZHdtdzJAaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZzCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBALQ3 GpC2bomUqk+91wLYBzDMcCj5C9m6oZaHwvmIdXftOgTbCJXADo6G9T7BBAebw2JV38EINgKpy/ZH h7htyAkWYVoFsFPrwHounto8xTsySSePMiPlmIdQ10BcVSXMUJ3Juu16GlWOnAMJY2oYfEzmE7uT 9YgcBqKCo65pTFmOnR/VVbjJk4K2xE34GC2nAdUQkPFuyaFisicc6HRMOYXPuF0DuwITEKnjxgNj P+qDrh0db7PAjO1D4d5ftfrsf+kdRR4gKVGSk8Tz2WwvtLAroJM4nXjNPIBJNT4w/FWWc/5qPHJy 2U+eITZ5LLE5s45mX2oPFknWqxBobQZ8a9dsZ3dSPZBvE9ZrmtFLrVrN4eo1jsXgAp1+p7bkfqd3 BgBEmfsYWlBXO8rVXfvPgLs32VdVNZxb/CDWPqBsiYv0Hv3HPsz07j5b+/cVoWqyHDKzkaVbxfq/ 7auNVRmPB3v5SWEsH8xi4Bez2V9UKxfYCnqsjp8RaC2/khxKt0A552Eaxnz/4ly/2C7wkwTQnBmd lFYhAflWKQ03Ufiu8t3iBE3VJbc25oMrglj7TRZrmKq3CkbFnX0fyulB+kHimrt6PIWn7kgyl9ae lIl6vtbhMA+l0nfrsORMa4kobqQ5C5rveVgmcIad67EDa+UqEKy/GltUwlSh6xy+TrK1tzDvAgMB AAGjggHMMIIByDAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBQJwPL8C9qU21/+K9+omULPyeCtADAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUzMeD Mcimo0oz8o1R1Nver3ZVpSkwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgWgMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwHQYDVR0lBBYw FAYIKwYBBQUHAwQGCCsGAQUFBwMCMEAGA1UdIAQ5MDcwNQYMKwYBBAGyMQECAQEBMCUwIwYIKwYB BQUHAgEWF2h0dHBzOi8vc2VjdGlnby5jb20vQ1BTMFoGA1UdHwRTMFEwT6BNoEuGSWh0dHA6Ly9j cmwuc2VjdGlnby5jb20vU2VjdGlnb1JTQUNsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5kU2VjdXJlRW1h aWxDQS5jcmwwgYoGCCsGAQUFBwEBBH4wfDBVBggrBgEFBQcwAoZJaHR0cDovL2NydC5zZWN0aWdv LmNvbS9TZWN0aWdvUlNBQ2xpZW50QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRTZWN1cmVFbWFpbENBLmNydDAj BggrBgEFBQcwAYYXaHR0cDovL29jc3Auc2VjdGlnby5jb20wHgYDVR0RBBcwFYETZHdtdzJAaW5m cmFkZWFkLm9yZzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFAAOCAQEAyW6MUir5dm495teKqAQjDJwuFCi35h4xgnQv Q/fzPXmtR9t54rpmI2TfyvcKgOXpqa7BGXNFfh1JsqexVkIqZP9uWB2J+uVMD+XZEs/KYNNX2PvI lSPrzIB4Z2wyIGQpaPLlYflrrVFKv9CjT2zdqvy2maK7HKOQRt3BiJbVG5lRiwbbygldcALEV9Ch WFfgSXvrWDZspnU3Gjw/rMHrGnqlHtlyebp3pf3fSS9kzQ1FVtVIDrL6eqhTwJxe+pXSMMqFiN0w hpBtXdyDjzBtQTaZJ7zTT/vlehc/tDuqZwGHm/YJy883Ll+GP3NvOkgaRGWEuYWJJ6hFCkXYjyR9 IzGCBMcwggTDAgEBMIGsMIGWMQswCQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVz dGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMT NVNlY3RpZ28gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhEA xr4ZlmdAxAMdKFES+jupfjANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFAKCCAeswGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3 DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMjIwNjIxMDk0OTQ5WjAvBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxIgQgFJRKdRkP dvbQeuVJ9prPrVCOGJO0Cps/X+j2teOZEjswgb0GCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBrzCBrDCBljELMAkGA1UE BhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEYMBYG A1UEChMPU2VjdGlnbyBMaW1pdGVkMT4wPAYDVQQDEzVTZWN0aWdvIFJTQSBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVu dGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQQIRAMa+GZZnQMQDHShREvo7qX4wgb8GCyqGSIb3 DQEJEAILMYGvoIGsMIGWMQswCQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVy MRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNl Y3RpZ28gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhEAxr4Z lmdAxAMdKFES+jupfjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAgA7tVds6t2ZFzE2TSoREjI37zHXC+W+ziFv pVsdLa/UMSYkm6aAa8GQ2BPEZCgmuWWqJx/g2yu6Tzjb5AeI28Fkb6+pD5Phibb9u/PzG3bzNewX q4/OLQjAvuVbAOsBSHPf6nZNZJHbdsk6FxH8HCnpd/zTRn4xX67ak4phjgy9NYFXmDdj7T31H+J1 gyfYPTSJ2bNVz5hZuqk2aFPcxU2i4okc0SloeN7HenaHAYXvRkcOEEUy3TMQ/PZx0pBXiPraD1+v qAOOTBdhft2atK8ICJtZLSd5tRrk2d+2UHS0ONv5mofy3tyqjONHnEWtxbxDUXIt0FGHBQpmZJZX gMTU8aIB66L3X/SBFzFkFs+j7MoxX060SnEdmayIV4gpP74gmToXhvGo9NNRJarbRbAVk/ZROtRD 4WLjN2jE+eu1ytdXUKdM+qFu+QbDLilMyeMtuEBdxus98u4Gk7H+79uJGAkoa6j6lusOpU09aY0c ElM0xmZgws/4wuvg0Ub0o4mS6tS8KK/i7ikYIMKBWu0trxJaFIB5BCxreejts9hTUwnXCrVTetkz zpKt4bVhdGuscLcosY3C9hL6CJZLOtbdEmXjYObqKFcHijc9LryosE6kTXVSTiTRV2AYk9wGGf4z k7H1fwdN/q33XvB2o5Zjbnnl6hVoFXG0sJdHZTpCyQAAAAAAAA== --=-I4eqSiNW2q8z76Ba1qpq--